From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why Emacs needs a modern bug tracker Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:05:42 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20080104164454.0A4BD830697@snark.thyrsus.com> <20080104232514.GB2735@muc.de> <87r6gxoyjv.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199559959 13173 80.91.229.12 (5 Jan 2008 19:05:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 19:05:59 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 05 20:06:20 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JBELc-0006s6-Bb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:06:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JBELF-0002D0-Q6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:05:57 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JBELC-0002BT-JS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:05:54 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JBELB-0002AS-Qh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:05:54 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JBELB-0002AL-MZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:05:53 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JBELB-0005OB-08 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:05:53 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JBEL7-0006r9-P2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:05:50 +0000 Original-Received: from 169.red-81-35-77.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([81.35.77.169]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:05:49 +0000 Original-Received: from ofv by 169.red-81-35-77.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:05:49 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 63 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 169.red-81-35-77.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.50 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:l81pSU8JxtIBkjLpJ3qLfpsd9ZM= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:86214 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Not just evidence: you should volunteer to do actual work. [snip] ESR volunteered for implementing the DVCS and the bug-tracker. I volunteered for spam-filtering and monitoring the bug-tracker. I can do other misc things, such as pre-testing the system and later assist other users on its use. > A bug tracker is a good case in point: Richard stated quite some time > ago the basic requirements for his acceptance of such a tool, but no > one stepped forward to do anything practical about that. I'll be grateful if you direct me to the message where this requirements were stated. I failed to find it on the archives. >> For the bug tracker, I'm afraid it will not so easy. Most likely, >> current Emacs developers should trade some diary personal incovenience >> for some long-term project development efficiency. On the other hand, it >> is difficult to appreciate the convenience of having an audit of a bug >> or feature until you are using the system for some months. > > Starting such a system, but not making it mandatory, would be a good > step towards the goal of having a good tracker in the future. In > general, a controversial feature should start as an option, before it > becomes the default. A bug tracker that is not updated by its users is worse than not having a bug tracker. :-) Really, what is important is that bugs are entered on the system. Users will do. You too, if you use report-emacs-bug. The rest comes with little effort. Those who do not want web operation still see the copy published on emacs-*-bugs (just as it happens today) and can request from the system the equivalent of PROBLEMS and TODO with simply a wget. You will not have files attached to the reports, such as screenshots, but you have not them today either. Of course, you will be allowed to request a single report intead of the full set of open issues. When you fix something, just say in your commit message "Fixes #1354" and the system will automatically close that bug (plus doing other nice things). If you want to add a comment to a bug report, just sending email to some emacs development mailing list mentioning its number on the message subject would be enough. A sophisticated system can inspect the body as well, so you can see in the bug report all messages that ever mentioned it. No more black holes. A bug tracker is a dynamic system in the sense that it can take sophisticated actions in response to its input, and we can exploit this on a variety of ways. A problem I perceive from the outside is that, for a casual Emacs contributor, it is too hard to monitor mailing lists looking for bug reports concerning the module(s) you maintain. The bug tracker can associate an "owner" for every report. This owner is determined either by the reporter's choice of affected module (say cc-mode), or by some overseer that performs a superficial analysis of the report (such person does not need to know a lot about Emacs internals, an ignorant like me could do a decent job). The bug tracker notifies the owner about the new bug and he can query the system for the bugs assigned to him. The advantages of a living database over a static text file are too large to enumerate. -- Oscar