From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Simon Josefsson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: doc elisp intro cross reference fixes Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:55:28 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87wua28zux.fsf@zip.com.au> <87ad6vdsxi.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1069873822 13243 80.91.224.253 (26 Nov 2003 19:10:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:10:22 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 26 20:10:12 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AP53E-0008Vu-00 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:10:12 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AP53E-0003pL-00 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:10:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AP5xU-0001RP-8W for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:08:20 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AP5nx-0004ML-NC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:58:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AP5mw-0003Rr-NS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:57:57 -0500 Original-Received: from [217.13.230.178] (helo=yxa.extundo.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.24) id 1AP5ms-0003Ge-B6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:57:23 -0500 Original-Received: from latte (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQItS1L004283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:55:39 +0100 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: nobody X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:031126:emacs-devel@gnu.org:b8ce7fb621a7994a X-Hashcash: 0:031126:emacs-devel@gnu.org:b8ce7fb621a7994a In-Reply-To: (Per Abrahamsen's message of "Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:03:57 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:18148 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:18148 Per Abrahamsen writes: > On the other hand, it should also be clear that > > 1) programmers don't understand the distinction > > I spend a lot of time fixing removing or adding "*" from Gnus options, > most other developers seemed to either add it always or never. Even > to the degree of adding or removing * from old code so everything was > the same. > > 2) programmers can't judge when an option is something users would > want to change as part of normal use > > 3) having too many choices for set-variable is much less of a > problem than having too few. To be fair to us programmers that doesn't understand the distinction: the elisp manual should probably be attributed a large part of the blame, because it is not very clear on what programmers should do. Assuming programmers will intuitively know how to use "*" is asking for too much, I think. If the manual was clear on when to use "*" with both defvar and defcustom, at least programmers would be able to learn the distinction. > so I think it would be best to retire the "*" convention entirely. > Actually enforcing it would be too much work for too little gain. FWIW, I agree.