From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Simon Josefsson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: Re: [Reuben Thomas] browse-url.el Opera support Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:32:36 +0100 Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1074407757 19607 80.91.224.253 (18 Jan 2004 06:35:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 06:35:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Richard Stallman , d.love@dl.ac.uk Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 18 07:35:03 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ai6WG-0004xw-00 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:34:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Ai6Vi-0007YB-SF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:34:14 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1Ai6Vg-0007Y5-7C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:34:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1Ai6VA-0007IW-DG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:34:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [217.13.230.178] (helo=yxa.extundo.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.24) id 1Ai6Ud-000731-Bv; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:33:08 -0500 Original-Received: from latte.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0I6WqAn005417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:32:57 +0100 Original-To: Reuben Thomas X-Hashcash: 0:040118:rrt@mupsych.org:198447f1471edc1b X-Hashcash: 0:040118:rms@gnu.org:29c4406ec9bdb47b X-Hashcash: 0:040118:bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org:adc04bb43b351d41 X-Hashcash: 0:040118:d.love@dl.ac.uk:08ab7bbfa133486b In-Reply-To: (Reuben Thomas's message of "Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:15:57 +0100 (CET)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:6614 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.bugs:6614 Let me add another more down-to-earth argument: if free software support non-free tools, like Opera in browse-url.el in this example, it becomes the free software people's work to make it work. The emacs maintainers have to apply the patches, document it, change the code whenever the tool changes its API, etc. This takes time, aka money. It is not clear why Emacs maintainers should donate time to people that don't give anything back. In some cases Emacs maintainers can do so when it is easy to do, and makes the users considerably happier. This seem to be the case for browse-url.el: as far as I recall, Netscape wasn't free software initially, but browse-url support it. If Opera Inc. were to donate money for support in browse-el.el, I would reconsider the situation, and might allow the modification. But I'm not sure the Emacs maintainers would. In that situation it may be a good opportunity to push Opera Inc. into using a free license on their software, instead of donating money. Unless the corporation's is mainly interested in pursuing non-free software for its own sake, it may make economical sense for them to re-license their software, instead of donating money to free software projects for adding Opera support. Especially if the sum of money would be large. A relicensed Opera would be better for the free software community, instead of the Emacs maintainers accepting money for making a certain modification. So it might actually be better, in the long-term, to even refuse donations in exchange for certain modifications. Regarding your modified browse-url.el: It is very difficult to evaluate your work when you send the entire file, instead of a patch (use 'diff -u'). In any case, I don't think anyone has requested removing support for already supported non-free tools, like Netscape. Also, changing the type of existing variables, like browse-url-generic-args, may break backwards compatibility, which I think is a no-no for that kind of variable.