From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Simon Josefsson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Customize fringe Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:39:08 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <877kmd7bf5.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp> <9003-Thu09May2002210730+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il> <200205091835.g49IZDZ17232@rum.cs.yale.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1020973330 16959 127.0.0.1 (9 May 2002 19:42:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:42:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eli Zaretskii" , miles@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 175tnm-0004PK-00 for ; Thu, 09 May 2002 21:42:10 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 175twW-0003PE-00 for ; Thu, 09 May 2002 21:51:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 175tnk-0008MU-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 15:42:08 -0400 Original-Received: from 178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net ([217.13.230.178] helo=yxa.extundo.com) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 175tl6-00087S-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 15:39:25 -0400 Original-Received: from latte-eth2-dhcp128.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g49JdF5p007928; Thu, 9 May 2002 21:39:15 +0200 Original-To: "Stefan Monnier" In-Reply-To: <200205091835.g49IZDZ17232@rum.cs.yale.edu> ("Stefan Monnier"'s message of "Thu, 09 May 2002 14:35:13 -0400") Mail-Copies-To: nobody Original-Lines: 41 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090007 (Oort Gnus v0.07) Emacs/21.2.50 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:3784 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:3784 "Stefan Monnier" writes: > See my previous post yesterday or the day before on a separate thread > for why I don't think there should be a "toggle fringe" in the menu bar. This was it: >> From: Thien-Thi Nguyen >> Date: 03 May 2002 20:39:35 -0400 >> >> > i imagine arrows dancing around the screen, some question like "these >> > are fringes -- do you belong to the minimalist school of thought; i.e., >> >> I think that we miss a chapter with this in the manual... > > If you're talking about the dancing arrows, I might agree, although > I'd point out that we also miss the corresponding implementation. > As for the fringes, I would rather not advertise the ability to > remove them (to new users). I didn't like them at first, but I now > think they're really cool (the only thing missing is the "cursor > inside the right fringe" feature which would allow us to display 80 > char lines with no wrapping). > I think new users could be tempted to turn them off and never discover > how cool they are (and/or whine about how lame the gdb-arrow looks). 1) There are many modes (mainly non-text editing ones) where fringes are of little use, e.g. Gnus, PCL-CVS, W3, Shell, Speedbar, Info. I don't think we should hide the possibility of disabling them to the user. Fringes are annoying to the user in the same way toolbars and menubars are, and it should be easy to disable. If we hadn't this discussion, I'd even argue the fringes should be disabled by default in those modes (much like speedbar disabled menubar and toolbar). 2) Alot of people asked for a way to disable the fringes after 21.1, this would make them happy, I think. I also did not like them at first, and have been using them up until now that I wrote this, but I still don't like them. I find myself running 20.7 when editing text just because I like the fringeless behaviour better. I don't think I'm alone in this..