From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Simon Josefsson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Cyrillic vs UTF-8 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:27:59 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <1858-Fri25Apr2003194023+0300-eliz@elta.co.il> <200304282149.h3SLnxSU002624@rum.cs.yale.edu> <200304291349.h3TDnKVt005184@rum.cs.yale.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1051626689 31753 80.91.224.249 (29 Apr 2003 14:31:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:31:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 29 16:31:27 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19AW7y-0008DD-00 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:30:38 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19AWGf-0001xu-00 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:39:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19AW8F-0002IJ-09 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:30:55 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 19AW7p-0002HA-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:30:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 19AW7n-0002Gf-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:30:28 -0400 Original-Received: from 178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net ([217.13.230.178] helo=yxa.extundo.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19AW5a-00015A-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:28:10 -0400 Original-Received: from latte.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TERxbU020940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:28:04 +0200 Original-To: "Stefan Monnier" X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:030429:monnier@rum.cs.yale.edu:c279c1db79549017 X-Hashcash: 0:030429:monnier@rum.cs.yale.edu:c279c1db79549017 X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:030429:eliz@elta.co.il:a65d4a33974bbe4f X-Hashcash: 0:030429:eliz@elta.co.il:a65d4a33974bbe4f X-Payment: hashcash 1.2 0:030429:emacs-devel@gnu.org:82f5cac1b583402e X-Hashcash: 0:030429:emacs-devel@gnu.org:82f5cac1b583402e In-Reply-To: <200304291349.h3TDnKVt005184@rum.cs.yale.edu> (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:49:20 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.09002 (Oort Gnus v0.20) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Original-cc: Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:13548 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:13548 "Stefan Monnier" writes: >> >> Can't we move binary down below UTF-8 in CVS? IMHO we should move >> >> UTF-8 earlier still, since determining whether data is UTF-8 or not >> >> can be done with good probability. Prefering binary over UTF-8 seems >> > >> > Agreed, but I think one of the problems is that the preference-ordering >> > is the same for load-time-detection as it is for save-time-detection, >> > so if you move utf-8 up for detection you end up saving all new files >> > in utf-8 which is not OK in non-utf-8 locales. >> >> This sounds serious in theory, but I was unable to make emacs behave >> unexpectedly in practice. Do you have an example? > > The problem only appears if you move utf-8 to the first spot. But utf-8 hasn't been moved first, so this isn't a problem? I agree it would be useful to be able to configure different loading and saving time preferences. Then I would be able to specify that emacs should try to save data as ascii first, then latin-1, then latin-9 and then UTF-8, then give up and ask. On loading, I'd want it to try latin-9 instead of latin-1 though. In non-UTF-8 locales, I think this behaviour is what many europeans would want. > Moving it to the first spot otherwise makes sense since > auto-detection of utf-8 is about as reliable as it gets. Yup.