* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
@ 2014-04-21 16:00 Jan Synáček
2014-04-21 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-21 21:32 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Jan Synáček @ 2014-04-21 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 17309
Section 4, "Skeleton Language", there is "Iff" twice in the text
describing '&' and '|'.
In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.7 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.10.8)
of 2014-04-21 on jsynacek-ntb
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11500000
System Description: NAME=Gentoo
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-21 16:00 bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info Jan Synáček
@ 2014-04-21 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-21 21:32 ` Stefan Monnier
1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-04-21 20:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jan Synáček; +Cc: 17309
> From: jan.synacek@gmail.com (Jan Synáček)
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 18:00:39 +0200
>
>
> Section 4, "Skeleton Language", there is "Iff" twice in the text
> describing '&' and '|'.
Not typos: "iff" means "if and only if".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-21 16:00 bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info Jan Synáček
2014-04-21 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2014-04-21 21:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 1:42 ` Stefan Monnier
1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2014-04-21 21:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jan Synáček; +Cc: 17309
> Section 4, "Skeleton Language", there is "Iff" twice in the text
> describing '&' and '|'.
It's a standard mathematical expression for "if and only if".
In French, we say "ssi" instead.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-21 21:32 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2014-04-22 1:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 2:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2014-04-22 1:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jan Synáček; +Cc: 17309
> It's a standard mathematical expression for "if and only if".
> In French, we say "ssi" instead.
But yes, we should document it in the glossary,
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 1:42 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2014-04-22 2:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-22 5:48 ` Jan Synáček
2014-04-22 9:37 ` Jan Synáček
0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-04-22 2:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: jan.synacek, 17309
> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA>
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 21:42:51 -0400
> Cc: 17309@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > It's a standard mathematical expression for "if and only if".
> > In French, we say "ssi" instead.
>
> But yes, we should document it in the glossary,
We already do.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 2:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2014-04-22 5:48 ` Jan Synáček
2014-04-22 9:37 ` Jan Synáček
1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Jan Synáček @ 2014-04-22 5:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii, Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 17309
On 04/22/2014 04:50 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA>
>> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 21:42:51 -0400
>> Cc: 17309@debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>>> It's a standard mathematical expression for "if and only if".
>>> In French, we say "ssi" instead.
>>
>> But yes, we should document it in the glossary,
>
> We already do.
>
Hmm, I didn't know that. Sorry for the noise.
--
Jan Synáček
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 2:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-22 5:48 ` Jan Synáček
@ 2014-04-22 9:37 ` Jan Synáček
2014-04-22 14:40 ` Stefan Monnier
` (2 more replies)
1 sibling, 3 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Jan Synáček @ 2014-04-22 9:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 17309
On 04/22/2014 04:50 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA>
>> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 21:42:51 -0400
>> Cc: 17309@debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>>> It's a standard mathematical expression for "if and only if".
>>> In French, we say "ssi" instead.
>>
>> But yes, we should document it in the glossary,
>
> We already do.
I checked the glossary and this is what it says:
"Iff" means "if and only if". This terminology comes from
mathematics. Try to avoid using this term in documentation, since
many are unfamiliar with it and mistake it for a typo.
So yes, I mistook it for a typo:) Another thing is that the Glossary
is located inside the "Emacs" info node, but I reported the bug
against the Autotype info node.
Cheers,
--
Jan Synáček
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 9:37 ` Jan Synáček
@ 2014-04-22 14:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 14:48 ` Drew Adams
` (2 more replies)
2014-04-22 16:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-05-01 23:56 ` Glenn Morris
2 siblings, 3 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2014-04-22 14:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jan Synáček; +Cc: 17309
> "Iff" means "if and only if". This terminology comes from
> mathematics. Try to avoid using this term in documentation, since
> many are unfamiliar with it and mistake it for a typo.
Indeed, I think "iff" is perfectly fine in docstrings, but we should
refrain from using it in the Texinfo documentation.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 14:40 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2014-04-22 14:48 ` Drew Adams
2014-04-22 14:51 ` Nicolas Richard
2014-04-22 16:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2014-04-22 14:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier, Jan Syná?ek; +Cc: 17309, rms
> > "Iff" means "if and only if". This terminology comes from
> > mathematics. Try to avoid using this term in documentation, since
> > many are unfamiliar with it and mistake it for a typo.
>
> Indeed, I think "iff" is perfectly fine in docstrings, but we should
> refrain from using it in the Texinfo documentation.
FWIW, a different policy was decided and followed before:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-08/msg00306.html
Why this policy change now?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 14:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 14:48 ` Drew Adams
@ 2014-04-22 14:51 ` Nicolas Richard
2014-04-22 15:24 ` Nicolas Richard
2014-04-22 16:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Richard @ 2014-04-22 14:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Jan Synáček, 17309
Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:
>> "Iff" means "if and only if". This terminology comes from
>> mathematics. Try to avoid using this term in documentation, since
>> many are unfamiliar with it and mistake it for a typo.
>
> Indeed, I think "iff" is perfectly fine in docstrings, but we should
> refrain from using it in the Texinfo documentation.
I grepped for '\biff\b' and got:
./info/message.info:625: header. (Iff `Cc' header is not present, `Bcc' header will be
./info/autotype.info:231: Logical and. Iff preceding element moved point, i.e., usually
./info/autotype.info:235: Logical xor. Iff preceding element didn't move point, i.e.,
(+ entries explaining it, or saying not to use it)
Having no experience with the involved packages, I don't suggest a
patch.
--
Nico.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 14:51 ` Nicolas Richard
@ 2014-04-22 15:24 ` Nicolas Richard
2014-04-22 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Nicolas Richard @ 2014-04-22 15:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nicolas Richard; +Cc: Jan Synáček, 17309
Nicolas Richard <theonewiththeevillook@yahoo.fr> writes:
> Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:
>
>>> "Iff" means "if and only if". This terminology comes from
>>> mathematics. Try to avoid using this term in documentation, since
>>> many are unfamiliar with it and mistake it for a typo.
>>
>> Indeed, I think "iff" is perfectly fine in docstrings, but we should
>> refrain from using it in the Texinfo documentation.
>
> I grepped for '\biff\b' and got:
> ./info/message.info:625: header. (Iff `Cc' header is not present, `Bcc' header will be
> ./info/autotype.info:231: Logical and. Iff preceding element moved point, i.e., usually
> ./info/autotype.info:235: Logical xor. Iff preceding element didn't move point, i.e.,
> (+ entries explaining it, or saying not to use it)
>
> Having no experience with the involved packages, I don't suggest a
> patch.
In view of Drew Adams' comment, here's the rest of the grep -- I removed
entries which are not part of docstrings (mostly ChangeLog, plain
comments and auto generated files) :
./lisp/progmodes/js.el:1355:variable name in the spec. Return true iff this was actually a
./lisp/progmodes/gdb-mi.el:1982: "Return non-nil iff STR and MATCH are equal up to the end of either strings.
./lisp/progmodes/gdb-mi.el:1992: "Return non-nil iff CHARACTER is a numerical character between 0 and 9."
./lisp/progmodes/prolog.el:3231: "Non-nil iff the mark is set. Lobotomized version for Emacsen that do not provide their own."
./lisp/progmodes/sh-script.el:2363:;; "Iff it isn't, define the current shell as abbrev table and fill that.
./lisp/url/url-parse.el:128:FULLNESS is non-nil iff the hierarchical sequence component of
./lisp/cedet/semantic/tag.el:175: "Return the buffer TAG resides in IFF tag is already in a buffer.
./lisp/cedet/semantic/ia-sb.el:142: "Show documentation about CONTEXT iff CONTEXT points at a complete symbol."
./lisp/cedet/semantic/bovine/c.el:1597:handled. A class is abstract iff its destructor is virtual."
./lisp/cedet/ede.el:103:argument, the directory name; the function should return t iff
./lisp/cedet/ede.el:707:Return nil iff DIR should not be in `ede-project-directories'."
./lisp/menu-bar.el:925: "Return non-nil iff VAL is a positive number."
./lisp/textmodes/reftex-parse.el:360: "Return non-nil iff we are using biblatex rather than bibtex."
./lisp/minibuffer.el:2776:Those chars are treated as delimiters iff this variable is non-nil.
./lisp/gnus/gnus-registry.el:1130:the user is asked first. Returns non-nil iff the registry is enabled."
./lisp/allout-widgets.el:269:Table is maintained iff `allout-widgets-maintain-tally' is non-nil.
./lisp/allout-widgets.el:1855:Optional HAS-SUCCESSOR is true iff the item is followed by a sibling.
./lisp/org/org-mouse.el:242: "Return non-nil iff the line contains only white space."
./lisp/org/org-mouse.el:284:enabled for a given keyword iff (funcall SELECTED keyword) return
./src/floatfns.c:145: doc: /* Return non nil iff argument X is a NaN. */)
./lisp/progmodes/verilog-mode.el:3163: "Return t iff the scan cache is up to date."
./lisp/progmodes/js.el:1305: "Return non-nil iff point is in a function parameter list."
./lisp/progmodes/js.el:1316: "Return non-nil iff point is in a Dojo multiple-inheritance class block."
The grep command was:
find . -type d \( -path \*/.eunit -o -path \*/.git -o -path \*/.hg -o -path \*/.fslckout -o -path \*/.bzr -o -path \*/_darcs -o -path \*/venv -o -path \*/build -o -path \*/SCCS -o -path \*/RCS -o -path \*/CVS -o -path \*/MCVS -o -path \*/.svn -o -path \*/_MTN -o -path \*/\{arch\} \) -prune -o \! -type d \( -name TAGS -o -name .\#\* -o -name \*mtc\* -o -name \*maf -o -name \*.o -o -name \*\~ -o -name \*.bin -o -name \*.lbin -o -name \*.so -o -name \*.a -o -name \*.ln -o -name \*.blg -o -name \*.bbl -o -name \*.elc -o -name \*.lof -o -name \*.glo -o -name \*.idx -o -name \*.lot -o -name \*.fmt -o -name \*.tfm -o -name \*.class -o -name \*.fas -o -name \*.lib -o -name \*.mem -o -name \*.x86f -o -name \*.sparcf -o -name \*.dfsl -o -name \*.pfsl -o -name \*.d64fsl -o -name \*.p64fsl -o -name \*.lx64fsl -o -name \*.lx32fsl -o -name \*.dx64fsl -o -name \*.dx32fsl -o -name \*.fx64fsl -o -name \*.fx32fsl -o -name \*.sx64fsl -o -name \*.sx32fsl -o -name \*.wx64fsl -o -name \*.wx32fsl -o -name \*.fasl -o -name \*.ufsl -o -name \*.fsl -o -name \*.dxl -o -name \*.lo -o -name \*.la -o -name \*.gmo -o -name \*.mo -o -name \*.toc -o -name \*.aux -o -name \*.cp -o -name \*.fn -o -name \*.ky -o -name \*.pg -o -name \*.tp -o -name \*.vr -o -name \*.cps -o -name \*.fns -o -name \*.kys -o -name \*.pgs -o -name \*.tps -o -name \*.vrs -o -name \*.pyc -o -name \*.pyo \) -prune -o -type f \( -name \* -o -name .\* \) -exec grep -i -nH -e \\biff\\b {}+
which returns 194 lines. Removal was then done mostly manually.
--
Nico.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 15:24 ` Nicolas Richard
@ 2014-04-22 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-04-22 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nicolas Richard; +Cc: theonewiththeevillook, jan.synacek, 17309
> From: Nicolas Richard <theonewiththeevillook@yahoo.fr>
> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 17:24:16 +0200
> Cc: Jan Synáček <jan.synacek@gmail.com>,
> 17309@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > I grepped for '\biff\b' and got:
Gee, almost 25 uses in what, 10 thousand doc strings? 20? That's awful!
(Thanks for the footwork, Nicolas.)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 14:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 14:48 ` Drew Adams
2014-04-22 14:51 ` Nicolas Richard
@ 2014-04-22 16:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-04-22 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: jan.synacek, 17309
> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA>
> Cc: 17309@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 10:40:43 -0400
>
> Indeed, I think "iff" is perfectly fine in docstrings, but we should
> refrain from using it in the Texinfo documentation.
Besides Glossary, autotype.info and message.info are the only manuals
that do, for the grand total of 3 (three) occurrences. So I'd say we
follow our own advice quite well.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 9:37 ` Jan Synáček
2014-04-22 14:40 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2014-04-22 16:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-22 18:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-05-01 23:56 ` Glenn Morris
2 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2014-04-22 16:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jan Synáček; +Cc: 17309
> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 11:37:44 +0200
> From: Jan Synáček <jan.synacek@gmail.com>
> CC: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
> Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA>
>
> Another thing is that the Glossary is located inside the "Emacs"
> info node, but I reported the bug against the Autotype info node.
There's only one Glossary for all of the Emacs manuals. (Actually,
most of the manuals in doc/misc are just parts of the Emacs User
Manual that are kept separate to avoid bloating the volume and the
price of the printed manual book; they are not separate manuals.)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 16:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2014-04-22 18:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 18:35 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2014-04-22 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Jan Synáček, 17309
> There's only one Glossary for all of the Emacs manuals. (Actually,
> most of the manuals in doc/misc are just parts of the Emacs User
> Manual that are kept separate to avoid bloating the volume and the
> price of the printed manual book; they are not separate manuals.)
Indeed, I think they shouldn't appear in the top-level dir file.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 18:26 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2014-04-22 18:35 ` Drew Adams
2014-04-22 19:44 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2014-04-22 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Jan Syná?ek, 17309
> > There's only one Glossary for all of the Emacs manuals. (Actually,
> > most of the manuals in doc/misc are just parts of the Emacs User
> > Manual that are kept separate to avoid bloating the volume and the
> > price of the printed manual book; they are not separate manuals.)
>
> Indeed, I think they shouldn't appear in the top-level dir file.
That sounds reasonable to me, providing they are linked to from the
Emacs manual. IOW, there needs to be some way for a user to know
about them and reach them.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 18:35 ` Drew Adams
@ 2014-04-22 19:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 19:54 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2014-04-22 19:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Drew Adams; +Cc: Jan Syná?ek, 17309
> That sounds reasonable to me, providing they are linked to from the
> Emacs manual. IOW, there needs to be some way for a user to know
> about them and reach them.
On the contrary, we should simply patch info.el so as to hide those
entries and prevent the user from ever reaching those manuals.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 19:44 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2014-04-22 19:54 ` Drew Adams
2014-04-22 23:04 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2014-04-22 19:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Jan Syná?ek, 17309
> > That sounds reasonable to me, providing they are linked to from the
> > Emacs manual. IOW, there needs to be some way for a user to know
> > about them and reach them.
>
> On the contrary, we should simply patch info.el so as to hide those
> entries and prevent the user from ever reaching those manuals.
Then I obviously misunderstood what manuals you are talking about.
Sorry. I thought this was about manuals such as Ediff, which involve
things that Emacs users use.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info
2014-04-22 9:37 ` Jan Synáček
2014-04-22 14:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 16:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2014-05-01 23:56 ` Glenn Morris
2 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2014-05-01 23:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 17309-done
Version: 24.4
I replaced the "iffs".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2014-05-01 23:56 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 20+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2014-04-21 16:00 bug#17309: 24.4.50; Typos in autotype info Jan Synáček
2014-04-21 20:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-21 21:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 1:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 2:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-22 5:48 ` Jan Synáček
2014-04-22 9:37 ` Jan Synáček
2014-04-22 14:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 14:48 ` Drew Adams
2014-04-22 14:51 ` Nicolas Richard
2014-04-22 15:24 ` Nicolas Richard
2014-04-22 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-22 16:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-22 16:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-04-22 18:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 18:35 ` Drew Adams
2014-04-22 19:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-04-22 19:54 ` Drew Adams
2014-04-22 23:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-05-01 23:56 ` Glenn Morris
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