From: Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Reverting but keeping undo
Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:25:44 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ic61y1sysn.fsf@home.home> (raw)
In-Reply-To: mailman.562.1369804408.22516.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>> >> FWIW, I just installed a patch in Emacs's trunk which makes that
>> >> revert-buffer doesn't discard undo history any more.
>> >
>> > Hm. So `revert-buffer' no longer removes undo? That has always been a
>> > part of what reverting means. And it is clearly intended in the code,
>> > not just an unfortunate accident or oversight.
>>
>> I think it's a great change.
>>
>> > And why no discussion beforehand?
>
> Yes, why? Any good reason?
>
>> > I can't think of a great reason why
>> > undo should *always* be removed as part of reverting (as it always has
>> > been). But just maybe there is a good reason for doing that, at least
>> > some or even most of the time. Why not give Richard et al the benefit
>> > of the doubt (30 years of "classic" reverting) and make undo removal
>> > optional, at least for a while? (Or is doubt a no-no?)
>>
>> Are you, personally, asking for it to be customizable?
>
> Code and users should control whether to get the new behavior or the
> behavior they've had for the last 3 decades. (Sure, users can add
> back code themselves to empty the undo list and get back the former
> behavior...)
>
>> What's your use case for throwing away the undo list?
>
> That's what reverting is about: returning to an initial state. The
> undo list did not exist when the buffer was first visited - a new
> buffer has no undo. Reverting generally means starting over from
> scratch - i.e., putting things in the same state they had at the
> outset (since the last save).
>
> Yes, there are some exceptions - some buffers have special reverting
> behavior. And yes, we can define Emacs to be anything. We can change
> what reverting means generally in Emacs, if we want. But such a basic
> change calls for a little discussion at emacs-devel, don't you think?
>
> Maybe someone wants to keep some highlighting they applied in the
> buffer too, or keep some local variables, or... A similar argument
> could be made for keeping all sorts of changes to the buffer state
> after "reversion". But generally the way to make any such
> design/behavior change is to first propose and discuss in
> emacs-devel@gnu.org.
>
> There might well be someone out there who, "personally" or not (?),
> has (another) good argument for keeping things the way they were - at
> least as an option. Who knows? As Richard often says (especially for
> changes to basic, longstanding behavior), why not poll the users?
>
> Do you "personally" know that no one wants to drop the undo list when reverting - whether interactively or in code?
>
> Don't you wonder that this came up now seemingly for the first time?
> Do you think that no one has thought before about whether the undo
> list should be kept or dropped when reverting? A bit presumptuous,
> no?
>
> Give those who designed and first implemented buffers and buffer
> reverting the benefit of the doubt, at least to start with. They were
> not necessarily right, but they were not obviously wrong, which is
> seemingly the way you look at it. To you it is apparently a
> no-brainer that undo should not be dropped - how silly they were in
> the old days...
>
> Has something changed recently that suddenly makes the original design
> no longer appropriate? What's new here? Facebook? Mobile apps? The
> Kardashians? Why should this behavior be changed now - why not
> before?
>
> Think about it a bit more. Open it for discussion on emacs-devel. Why act so precipitously? Is that "personally" necessary?
Reading through all that, I can only conclude that you can't think of
any reason why retaining undo history is bad.
Tradition or it used to work that way is ridiculous.
I can easily think of reasons why it's good.
I control compilation with file variables.
If I change the file variables, a revert makes Emacs aware of the new
values. I certainly don't want to lose my undo history.
I say, great change.
--
Dan Espen
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-05-29 13:25 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 31+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-05-15 10:38 Reverting but keeping undo Óscar Fuentes
2013-05-16 5:29 ` W. Greenhouse
2013-05-16 15:10 ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-05-29 1:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-05-29 3:09 ` Drew Adams
2013-05-29 3:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-05-29 5:13 ` Drew Adams
2013-05-29 12:26 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-05-29 13:55 ` Drew Adams
2013-05-29 15:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-05-29 16:33 ` Drew Adams
2013-05-29 17:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
[not found] ` <mailman.605.1369845207.22516.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-05-29 18:42 ` Dan Espen
2013-05-29 13:48 ` Stefan Monnier
[not found] ` <mailman.562.1369804408.22516.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-05-29 13:25 ` Dan Espen [this message]
2013-05-29 16:26 ` Drew Adams
2013-05-30 18:48 ` Michael Heerdegen
2013-05-30 18:41 ` Michael Heerdegen
2013-05-30 19:19 ` Óscar Fuentes
2013-05-30 21:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-05-30 22:05 ` Michael Heerdegen
[not found] ` <mailman.728.1369951538.22516.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-05-30 23:59 ` Dan Espen
2013-05-31 0:58 ` Stefan Monnier
[not found] ` <mailman.738.1369961954.22516.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-05-31 1:21 ` Dan Espen
2013-05-31 2:28 ` Drew Adams
2013-05-31 16:05 ` Michael Heerdegen
2013-05-31 18:29 ` Óscar Fuentes
[not found] ` <mailman.767.1370016367.22516.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-05-31 17:22 ` Dan Espen
2013-05-31 18:08 ` Barry Margolin
[not found] ` <mailman.699.1369939338.22516.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-05-30 18:45 ` Barry Margolin
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-05-31 16:49 Barry OReilly
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