From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Uday S Reddy Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:41:20 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279104099 28735 80.91.229.12 (14 Jul 2010 10:41:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:41:39 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 14 12:41:38 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYzPE-0008P1-Rb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:41:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55466 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYzPE-0001OT-7R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 06:41:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=38368 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYzP8-0001NC-6X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 06:41:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYzP6-00039A-VI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 06:41:30 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:45170) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYzP6-00038u-Po for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 06:41:28 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYzP4-0008MG-TL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:41:26 +0200 Original-Received: from cpc10-harb6-0-0-cust112.perr.cable.virginmedia.com ([92.232.137.113]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:41:26 +0200 Original-Received: from u.s.reddy by cpc10-harb6-0-0-cust112.perr.cable.virginmedia.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:41:26 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 23 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cpc10-harb6-0-0-cust112.perr.cable.virginmedia.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.4) Gecko/20100608 Thunderbird/3.1 In-Reply-To: <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127274 Archived-At: On 7/12/2010 11:03 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > The question of whether to consider scrolling from the point of view of the view > port / window or the point of view of the paper / data surface / buffer (which > is moving?) is as old as the hills. And the answer sometimes depends on the > particular application in a logical way (think cockpit); otherwise it is > arbitrary. I thought sensible systems always did it from the point of view of the human user, ergo human-centered systems. When I teach, I say "delete left subtree" using my right arm. Nobody ever gets confused. It took me a while to learn to do it though. The aerobic instructors don't do that. They say raise you right arm and demonstrate by raising *their* right arm. People seem to manage ok, but I have to admit I do get confused. So, a human-centered Emacs would "scroll-down" by letting the human user move down a document (not move the document down). The real Emacs does the opposite. Cheers, Uday