From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: line-move-visual Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:51:21 +0000 (UTC) Organization: muc.de e.V. Message-ID: References: <87d3vx5cku.fsf@gmail.com> <87bpbcrdk5.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1291835301 29925 80.91.229.12 (8 Dec 2010 19:08:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 19:08:21 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 08 20:08:17 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PQPNA-0007yh-4H for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 20:08:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48266 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PQPN9-0006fg-Hl for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 14:08:15 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-2.dfn.de!news.dfn.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.belwue.de!news.tu-darmstadt.de!news.muc.de!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs,comp.lang.lisp Original-Lines: 50 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin.muc.de Original-X-Trace: colin2.muc.de 1276620681 57915 2001:608:1000::2 (15 Jun 2010 16:51:21 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: news-admin@muc.de Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:51:21 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-RELEASE (i386)) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:178968 comp.emacs:100053 comp.lang.lisp:289214 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:75856 Archived-At: In comp.emacs Uday S Reddy wrote: > On 6/15/2010 7:54 AM, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: > But I feel this discussion is tangential. Most of us accept that > visual line movement is a /good/ idea and we find it useful in lots of > contexts. We are grateful for Stefan & co for thinking of it and > implementing it. > The question is really whether it should have been made the default. Yes. That is a very difficult question. Most contentious issues discussed on the developers' list are about changing defaults. This was one of these. > Every time I narrowed down to that issue in this thread, the > participants have fallen silent (first Xah Lee then Tim Cross, Alan > Mackenzie and Stefan himself). I guess there is no good answer to it. Ooh, talk about trolling! ;-) I have "fallen silent" because I've nothing much fresh to say. > There is no need for us to beat a dead horse. If the developers accept > that it is a bad idea to introduce backward-incompatible changes for > flimsy reasons, Emacs will be a more useful system for all of us than > it currently is. Normally I'd find myself arguing strongly in the camp of the "traditionalists" when fighting over a change in defaults. For this particular change, I'm ambivalent. The hassle with directly editing long lines is, I believe, more painful than that of navigating keyboard macros through them. Somebody had to decide this issue, and that somebody was Stefan. I think, on balance, he made the right choice. I wouldn't have been complaining if he had decided the opposite. > Fortunately, nothing major is going to fall apart as a result of > `next-line' changing its meaning. But I hope that we can arrest this > trend right here so that we don't have to put up with more pain in > future. "Trend"? You are getting polemic! Emacs will continue to evolve steadily, and some of the changes will cause you minor pain, as they will me. You're surely used to tweaking your .emacs on every major release, so what's new? > Cheers, > Uday -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).