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From: Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: line-move-visual
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:38:17 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <hurbep$ome$1@north.jnrs.ja.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006100917480.662@hsinghsing.panda.com>

Mark Crispin wrote:

> The notion of "community-owned software" works as ideology, but not as 
> reality.  If emacs was really community-owned software, I as a community 
> member could revert the change in the official distribution sources.  
> And then there could be revert wars ala Wikipedia.

Exactly!  By "community-owned", I don't mean community-developed.  There needs 
to be control and discipline etc in the development team.  Otherwise, there 
will be chaos, and mission-critical fitness will go out of the window.

By community ownership, I only mean that all the people that have a stake in 
the system have a voice in the matter and we all feel ownership of the system. 
  When the community is divided, as seems to be the case on this issue, the 
developers have to make a decision and move on.

In any case, I think we have reached a point where you and Stefan need to talk 
to each other directly and sort it out.  In my humble opinion, it is easy to 
argue that the current default was ill-chosen.  But it is not so easy to argue 
that it should be changed.  If we change it, then we face all the same issues 
all over again affecting the other users that are depending on the current 
default.  So, it seems best to leave things as they are and make a note of all 
the lessons learned.

> But even the laymen become power-corrupted.

I think that is a bit of an exaggeration.  They have a responsibility to bear 
and sometimes they get carried away.

> Since user interface surprise is a barrier to upgrade, they make sure 
> there aren't any such surprises.

Yes, that point is well-made.  But, the same argument now suggests that the 
default should not be changed yet again.

Cheers,
Uday




  reply	other threads:[~2010-06-10 18:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 174+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006031053170.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
     [not found] ` <hu925r$1b$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
     [not found]   ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006031431510.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
2010-06-04  7:59     ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
     [not found]       ` <87pr07qjio.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de>
2010-06-04 11:24         ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-04 12:49           ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-09 19:51             ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-09 20:22               ` line-move-visual Brendan Halpin
2010-06-10  1:23               ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]         ` <hualdf$eln$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-04 13:00           ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-04 14:51             ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-04 20:53               ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-09 19:42               ` proposed keyboard-macro to record to elisp (was Re: line-move-visual) Joseph Brenner
2010-06-09 22:42                 ` LanX
     [not found]             ` <871vcmhq79.fsf@wivenhoe.ul.ie>
     [not found]               ` <hub2ss$is4$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-04 14:45                 ` line-move-visual Brendan Halpin
2010-06-04 17:49               ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-04 18:18                 ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 19:19                   ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
     [not found]                     ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006041829210.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
     [not found]                       ` <089883ee-0a63-4cb4-a0ec-d2fe4e71cc03@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
2010-06-06  9:53                         ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-06  9:39                           ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]                             ` <hug5rv$6d2$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-06 15:21                               ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-07  8:19                                 ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
     [not found]                                   ` <m2fx0z46wj.fsf@gmail.com>
2010-06-07 16:20                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-06 15:43                               ` line-move-visual Alain Ketterlin
     [not found]                                 ` <87wrucccl3.fsf_-_@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de>
2010-06-07  6:18                                   ` Wrong use of format=flowed antidote Uday S Reddy
2010-06-07 21:30                                 ` line-move-visual Joost Kremers
2010-06-06 18:17                               ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
     [not found]                                 ` <4C0C466E.3000803@thadlabs.com>
2010-06-07  2:53                                   ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-07  8:46                               ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-07 16:23                                 ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-09 20:23                                   ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-07  8:39                             ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-10 10:12                               ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-10 13:43                                 ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-10 15:17                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-10 19:53                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-10 15:44                                   ` line-move-visual despen
2010-06-10 22:02                                   ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-10 23:56                                     ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-10 22:48                                   ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
     [not found]                                     ` <slrni2ja96.6pq.nospam-abuse@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu>
2010-06-29 11:09                                       ` HOWTO: Cowtow to old farts Xah Lee
2010-06-10 16:57                                 ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-10 18:38                                   ` Uday S Reddy [this message]
2010-06-11 23:56                                     ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-12  0:17                                       ` line-move-visual Wojciech Meyer
2010-06-13 17:23                                         ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-13 20:56                                           ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-14  0:42                                             ` line-move-visual Jim Diamond
2010-06-14 10:49                                             ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-14 17:16                                               ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-14 17:34                                                 ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-15  9:26                                               ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-15 13:49                                                 ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                   ` <87sk4n3ocs.fsf@rapttech.com.au>
2010-06-16 14:43                                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                             ` <m2k4q18od5.fsf@softwarematters.org>
     [not found]                                               ` <jwvaaqxbcca.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>
2010-06-15  6:54                                                 ` line-move-visual Pascal J. Bourguignon
2010-06-15  8:42                                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-15  9:30                                                     ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-15  9:38                                                     ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-15 13:45                                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-15 13:57                                                       ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]                                                         ` <jwvbpbb6oyk.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>
2010-06-16 18:04                                                           ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]                                                       ` <hv8gvf$98o$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
     [not found]                                                         ` <hv8iog$313e$1@colin2.muc.de>
2010-06-15 19:37                                                           ` line-move-visual Leo
     [not found]                                                             ` <871vc8dpga.fsf@imladris.arda>
2010-06-16 12:37                                                               ` Emacs language Leo
2010-06-17  8:00                                                                 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-06-15 21:04                                                           ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-16 15:33                                                             ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-17  8:51                                                               ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-16 14:33                                                         ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                           ` <db13ae67-9d9a-4556-9a7c-8f86de63011f@b4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
2010-07-19 22:41                                                             ` minor mode on/off/toggle with t/nil question Stefan Monnier
2010-06-15 16:51                                                     ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-16 12:43                                                       ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-15 19:17                                                     ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-16 14:49                                                       ` espresso-mode (was: line-move-visual) Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                     ` <4C17FE36.30102@thadlabs.com>
2010-06-15 22:45                                                       ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-15 23:31                                                         ` line-move-visual Thad Floryan
2010-06-16  3:30                                                           ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
2010-06-16 16:14                                                             ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-16 23:23                                                           ` line-move-visual Chris F.A. Johnson
     [not found]                                                           ` <b1e84c4a-e74e-4ace-9b0f-a00b370eb61d@q39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
2010-06-16 23:45                                                             ` Keyboard Hardware's Influence on Keyboard Shortcut Design Xah Lee
2010-06-16 14:52                                                         ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                           ` <87r5k6sqg2.fsf@unm.edu>
2010-06-17  2:25                                                             ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-17  3:51                                                               ` line-move-visual Chris F.A. Johnson
2010-06-17  9:03                                                             ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-20 18:42                                                               ` line-move-visual B. T. Raven
2010-06-20 17:08                                                 ` line-move-visual B. T. Raven
2010-06-12  4:18                                       ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-12  4:37                                         ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
2010-06-12  8:30                                           ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-12  8:40                                             ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
2010-06-12  9:30                                             ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-12 12:30                                               ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-12 20:09                                           ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-13  1:41                                             ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-13 10:22                                               ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-13 10:51                                                 ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-13 11:32                                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-14  0:46                                                 ` line-move-visual Tim X
     [not found]                                                   ` <hv4nkd$quq$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-15  9:20                                                     ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-15 11:29                                                       ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-16  9:29                                                         ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-14  4:48                                                 ` line-move-visual Tim X
     [not found]                                                 ` <m2iq5nw4pj.fsf@gmail.com>
     [not found]                                                   ` <hv2htd$4li$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
     [not found]                                                     ` <m239wravxb.fsf@gmail.com>
2010-06-16  2:11                                                       ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-16  6:46                                                         ` line-move-visual Helmut Eller
2010-06-13 10:36                                             ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-16  2:19                                               ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
     [not found]                                         ` <huvsd5$8pm$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-12 12:25                                           ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-12 20:17                                             ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-10 19:57                                   ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-13 12:46                                     ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-09 21:38                             ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
     [not found]                               ` <slrni10ga0.t64.Jim.Diamond@jdiamond-nb.acadiau.ca>
2010-06-10 16:15                                 ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 17:52       ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 18:28         ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]           ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006041808540.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
     [not found]             ` <878w6truxc.fsf@lola.goethe.zz>
2010-06-06  2:25               ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
     [not found]               ` <87typc9dt8.fsf@kzsu.stanford.edu>
     [not found]                 ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006091815150.93771@hsinghsing.panda.com>
2010-06-10  7:12                   ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-04 21:16         ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-05  1:29           ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 13:20     ` line-move-visual sable
2009-07-09 18:12 line-move-visual Johan Myréen
2009-07-10  4:26 ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  4:43   ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10  5:48     ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  6:14       ` line-move-visual Kenichi Handa
2009-07-10  6:58         ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  8:13           ` line-move-visual Alfred M. Szmidt
2009-07-10 10:10             ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  8:43           ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10  8:57             ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10  9:04               ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 10:32                 ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  9:08               ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10  9:13               ` line-move-visual joakim
2009-07-10  9:22                 ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10 16:11                   ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 16:22                     ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 17:20                       ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 17:40                         ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10  9:52                 ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10 16:11                   ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 11:35               ` line-move-visual Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-10 13:38                 ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10 16:11                   ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 18:01                     ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10 18:16                       ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-11 19:34                   ` line-move-visual Juri Linkov
2009-07-10 13:56                 ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 15:07                   ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10 20:29                     ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 15:43               ` line-move-visual Alfred M. Szmidt
2009-07-10 15:56             ` line-move-visual Sean O'Rourke
2009-07-10  9:14           ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2009-07-10  9:56             ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10 10:22               ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10 16:11                 ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 10:36               ` line-move-visual Ulrich Mueller
2009-07-10 10:56                 ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10 11:07                   ` line-move-visual Christian Faulhammer
2009-07-10 11:29                   ` line-move-visual Ulrich Mueller
2009-07-10 18:15                     ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10 20:40     ` line-move-visual Richard Stallman
2009-07-11  1:58       ` line-move-visual Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-11  2:29         ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  2:44           ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-11 18:30             ` line-move-visual Richard Stallman
2009-07-10  6:12   ` line-move-visual Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-10 21:19     ` line-move-visual Johan Myréen
2009-07-10 22:14       ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-11  1:34       ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  2:46       ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-11  5:25         ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  5:49           ` line-move-visual Kenichi Handa
2009-07-11  6:13             ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  9:22           ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  4:35 ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10 13:31 ` line-move-visual Chong Yidong
2009-07-11  6:42 ` line-move-visual Andrey Paramonov
2009-07-11  7:21   ` line-move-visual Teemu Likonen

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