Re: line-move-visual

[Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk>]

On 6/5/2010 11:28 PM, Xah Lee wrote:

> I respect your recognized contribution to humanity as a computer
> programer. However, not sure if you are aware, that i've argued with
> well known emacs and lisp old timers for the past 10 years

Thank God that some civility has returned to this thread!

> to argue, first let's be precise what we are arguing about. Here's few
> points:
>
> • emacs 23's introduction of line-move-visual feature is good (or
> bad).
>
> • emacs 23's default of line-move-visual t good (or bad)
>
> • the very concep of move by screen line is good (or bad).

No, I don't think that these are the questions that this debate is about.  (When we start debating what the debate is about, we should realize that we are hopelessly knotted up in circles!)

Emacs 23 has a *visual line mode* and a *logical line mode* (the default mode that you have whenever the visual-line-mode is /not/ turned on).

Everybody understands and expects that C-n moves by visual line in the visual line mode.  The question is, do you want it to move by visual line or logical line in the *logical line mode*?

Let me repeat:  do you want C-n to move by visual line or logical in the *logical line mode*?

In the megabytes of debate that has gone on on this issue, I haven't seen a single point mentioned as to why it should move by visual line in the logical line mode.  Yet, that is the default in Emacs 23!  Worse, it *changes* the semantics of C-n which as, Mark Crispin points out, has been here the 70's.

So, there are three things that an old-timer is annoyed about:

1. Change of established semantics.

2. Inconsistency.

3. Pointlessness.

Coupled with these real technical issues, there are the attitudinal problems of holier-than-thou, smarter-than-thou and modern-than-thou and what have you.  In another part of this thread, we have also seen the astonishing idea that the developers don't have to care about what the users want/need. If that is the attitude that open source developers take, then I will be the first to give up open source!

Cheers,
Uday