From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kevin Rodgers Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: elisp's cl package. Don't understand the notice about eval-when-compile Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:42:52 -0600 Message-ID: References: <558fb909-6290-4c04-88a3-ad385d75f456@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1238118227 6266 80.91.229.12 (27 Mar 2009 01:43:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 01:43:47 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 27 02:45:05 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ln184-0005pe-J0 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 02:45:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47274 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ln16h-0007r1-JV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:43:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ln16J-0007pD-Mm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:43:15 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ln16E-0007nJ-7c for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:43:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=59127 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ln16D-0007n4-VR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:43:09 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:48489 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ln16D-0002Z5-Hi for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:43:09 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Ln169-0007XI-SH for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 01:43:05 +0000 Original-Received: from c-67-190-36-32.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([67.190.36.32]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 01:43:05 +0000 Original-Received: from kevin.d.rodgers by c-67-190-36-32.hsd1.co.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 01:43:05 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 49 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-67-190-36-32.hsd1.co.comcast.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:63317 Archived-At: Leo wrote: > Emacs is resistant to innovations. This is going to kill it at some > point. But maybe it is good as it shows emacs is subject to 'survival of > the fittest' after all. Or the converse: Emacs is the environment, and alleged innovations survive or not if they are fit for Emacs. > Having used GNU/Linux for 7 years and windows for 9 months, I am getting > my first macbook. I think paying a price for a good service, a peace of > mind and most importantly, saving hours and hours of time is far more > important in life than having the feeling of 'I'm using 100% free/open > source software', and the mac world is full of innovations. In this > regard, it seems the free software movement is out of touch. I used various proprietary Unix implementations (primarily Sun) for most of my 24 years in the profession before being forced to Windows 3 or 4 years ago. I only got a computer for home use a couple years ago, and it is an Apple (Mac OS X). But I am very aware of the enormous open software and free software contributions to the technical success of both commercial Unix and Mac OS X. They are both far more useable in the true sense than any Microsoft OS _because_ of open software and free software. And I've never felt like I've wasted time using or contributing to the open and/or free software in those systems. > I learnt from #emacs on freenode the saying "Free software is free if > your time is useless", which wakes me up to the guilt of wasting time. That saying is false on a couple levels: 1. The freedom granted by free software is what allows you to use your time as _you_ wish. 2. Using non-free software makes you guilty of wasting the time of the persons who designed, implemented, documented, and distributed it: because inevitably there will be bugs to fix or opportunities to enhance it that will go undone because *you and everybody else* _can't_. 2. It reminds me of a _former_ CTO at my company who made this point when he introduced himself to the IT staff: We are not system integrators. He is long gone, because he didn't understand that _all_ software development is system integration. And that depends on open and free software, which the present CIO of my company (who hired that CTO) still doesn't understand. -- Kevin Rodgers Denver, Colorado, USA