* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 1:41 desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users Samuel Wales
@ 2009-01-16 2:13 ` Matthew Lundin
2009-01-16 2:32 ` Austin Frank
` (3 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Lundin @ 2009-01-16 2:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Samuel Wales; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, emacs-orgmode
Hi Samuel,
"Samuel Wales" <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
> I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting
> off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which
> are good things.
>
> However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses "|".
>
> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a
> command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much
> might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new
> user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it
> doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a
> need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes
> can do that.
>
> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by
> default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following.
>
> What do you think?
I hadn't thought of that. I started using boxquote because I was
looking for an easier way to set off code. But if it's a nuisance or a
problem to new users, then I'd be happy to modify the variable
boxquote-side accordingly.
Something like this perhaps?
,----
(setq boxquote-side " ")
`----
What do others think? Is this readable enough?
The only downside is that the cursor has to be on the beginning or
ending line for commands such as boxquote-unbox or boxquote-yank or
boxquote-narrow-to-boxquote to work.
Best,
Matt
>
> --
> For personal gain, myalgic encephalomyelitis denialists are knowingly
> causing massive suffering and 25-years-early death by grossly
> corrupting science.
> http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
@ 2009-01-16 2:13 ` Matthew Lundin
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Lundin @ 2009-01-16 2:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Samuel Wales; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, emacs-orgmode
Hi Samuel,
"Samuel Wales" <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
> I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting
> off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which
> are good things.
>
> However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses "|".
>
> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a
> command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much
> might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new
> user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it
> doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a
> need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes
> can do that.
>
> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by
> default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following.
>
> What do you think?
I hadn't thought of that. I started using boxquote because I was
looking for an easier way to set off code. But if it's a nuisance or a
problem to new users, then I'd be happy to modify the variable
boxquote-side accordingly.
Something like this perhaps?
,----
(setq boxquote-side " ")
`----
What do others think? Is this readable enough?
The only downside is that the cursor has to be on the beginning or
ending line for commands such as boxquote-unbox or boxquote-yank or
boxquote-narrow-to-boxquote to work.
Best,
Matt
>
> --
> For personal gain, myalgic encephalomyelitis denialists are knowingly
> causing massive suffering and 25-years-early death by grossly
> corrupting science.
> http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 1:41 desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users Samuel Wales
2009-01-16 2:13 ` Matthew Lundin
@ 2009-01-16 2:32 ` Austin Frank
2009-01-16 3:34 ` Matthew Lundin
2009-01-16 4:41 ` Kevin Rodgers
` (2 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Austin Frank @ 2009-01-16 2:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1550 bytes --]
On Thu, Jan 15 2009, Samuel Wales wrote:
> I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting
> off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which
> are good things.
>
> [snip]
>
> What do you think?
For anyone using gnus, I think a good alternative is to use
message-mark-inserted region. Select a region and hit C-c M-m to get
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
a region set apart in this manner.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
If you use a prefix on the command, C-u C-c M-m, you get slrn style
verbatim marks,
#v+
resulting in a region set a part in this manner.
#v-
Gnus gives nice highlighting in buffers containing sections like these.
Even for mail readers that don't recognize them, I think at least the
first is a good way of setting examples apart from the rest of the text.
FWIW, I do like boxquote for quoting excerpts from Info pages. On an
info page, put some text into the kill ring (I use kill-ring-save, which
is M-w in my setup). Then call M-x boxquote-info.
,----[ (info "(message)Insertion") ]
| `C-c M-m'
| Mark some region in the current article with enclosing tags. See
| `message-mark-insert-begin' and `message-mark-insert-end'. When
| called with a prefix argument, use slrn style verbatim marks
| (`#v+' and `#v-').
`----
Just my $0.02.
/au
--
Austin Frank
http://aufrank.net
GPG Public Key (D7398C2F): http://aufrank.net/personal.asc
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_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 2:32 ` Austin Frank
@ 2009-01-16 3:34 ` Matthew Lundin
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Lundin @ 2009-01-16 3:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Austin Frank; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Austin Frank <austin.frank@gmail.com> writes:
>
> For anyone using gnus, I think a good alternative is to use
> message-mark-inserted region. Select a region and hit C-c M-m to get
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> a region set apart in this manner.
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> If you use a prefix on the command, C-u C-c M-m, you get slrn style
> verbatim marks,
>
> #v+
> resulting in a region set a part in this manner.
> #v-
These are great tips. Thanks!
- Matt
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 1:41 desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users Samuel Wales
2009-01-16 2:13 ` Matthew Lundin
2009-01-16 2:32 ` Austin Frank
@ 2009-01-16 4:41 ` Kevin Rodgers
2023-08-18 20:46 ` Samuel Wales
2009-01-16 9:56 ` Tassilo Horn
[not found] ` <mailman.5042.1232113758.26697.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
4 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Rodgers @ 2009-01-16 4:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Samuel Wales wrote:
> I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of setting
> off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand out, both of which
> are good things.
>
> However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses "|".
>
> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a
> command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much
> might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new
> user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it
> doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a
> need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes
> can do that.
>
> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by
> default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following.
>
> What do you think?
,----[ C-h f boxquote-unbox RET ]
| boxquote-unbox is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `boxquote.el'.
| (boxquote-unbox)
|
| Remove the boxquote that contains `point'.
|
| [back]
`----
--
Kevin Rodgers
Denver, Colorado, USA
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 4:41 ` Kevin Rodgers
@ 2023-08-18 20:46 ` Samuel Wales
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2023-08-18 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kevin Rodgers; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, emacs-orgmode
On 1/15/09, Kevin Rodgers <kevin.d.rodgers@gmail.com> wrote:
>> However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by default uses
>> "|".
>>
>> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a
>> command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much
>> might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new
>> user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it
>> doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a
>> need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes
>> can do that.
>>
>> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by
>> default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following.
>>
>> What do you think?
>
> ,----[ C-h f boxquote-unbox RET ]
> | boxquote-unbox is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `boxquote.el'.
> | (boxquote-unbox)
> |
> | Remove the boxquote that contains `point'.
> |
> | [back]
> `----
thanks for your suggestion.
as i said, i am suggesting that the prefixed lines should never be
prefixed in the first place. i don't think it adds enough to outweigh
the extra keystrokes, rectangle, boxquote package, etc. i don't think
all newcomers will know what to do.
imho, above and below quoting is a preferable default convention.
exceptions are few and can be optional.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 1:41 desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users Samuel Wales
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2009-01-16 4:41 ` Kevin Rodgers
@ 2009-01-16 9:56 ` Tassilo Horn
[not found] ` <mailman.5042.1232113758.26697.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
4 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Tassilo Horn @ 2009-01-16 9:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
"Samuel Wales" <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
Hi Samuel,
> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands or write a
> command to unpack the quote, new users and users who can't type much
> might skip using the code to avoid having to do that. And a very new
> user could actually stick the whole thing in .emacs and wonder why it
> doesn't work. It adds to the burden of fixing a problem or meeting a
> need in emacs without providing much benefit. Even a few keystrokes
> can do that.
>
> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could by
> default get fancy only on the lines precediing and following.
>
> What do you think?
I think the best you can do is: Use boxquote for citations of
key/function/variable/info docs, but for code use
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(defun foo (a b)
(if (> a b)
(* a b)
(foo (foo (- b a) a) (- a b))))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
which is
,----[ C-h k C-c M-m ]
| C-c M-m runs the command message-mark-inserted-region, which is an interactive
| compiled Lisp function in `message.el'.
|
| It is bound to C-c M-m, <menu-bar> <Message> <Insert Region Marked>.
|
| (message-mark-inserted-region beg end &optional verbatim)
|
| Mark some region in the current article with enclosing tags.
| See `message-mark-insert-begin' and `message-mark-insert-end'.
| If verbatim, use slrn style verbatim marks ("#v+" and "#v-").
`----
That's highlighted by gnus (and some other readers), too, and you can
simply copy & paste it somewhere. It even tells you where to cut! ;-)
Bye,
Tassilo
--
In an average living room there are 1,242 objects RMS could use to write
an OS, including the room itself.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <mailman.5042.1232113758.26697.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>]
* Re: [Orgmode] desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
[not found] ` <mailman.5042.1232113758.26697.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2009-01-16 15:05 ` Sébastien Vauban
2009-01-16 21:05 ` Allan Gottlieb
[not found] ` <mailman.5078.1232139937.26697.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-01-16 15:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs-mXXj517/zsQ
Hi Matthew and Samuel,
>> I have noticed more people using boxquote and similar ways of
>> setting off code. This makes it pretty and makes it stand
>> out, both of which are good things.
I agree. Writing an easy-to-read mail is a good thing.
>> However, most prefix every line. For example, boxquote by
>> default uses "|".
>>
>> While an experienced user can figure out rectangle commands
>> or write a command to unpack the quote, new users and users
>> who can't type much might skip using the code to avoid having
>> to do that.
>>
>> Perhaps quotes of code, in all packages like boxquote, could
>> by default get fancy only on the lines precediing and
>> following.
>
> Something like this perhaps?
>
> ,----
> (setq boxquote-side " ")
> `----
For me, boxquote is not to use for code. It's great, and I use
it for everything else, but not for code...
For making your code stand out, just use `C-c M-m' or `M-x
message-mark-inserted-region' once you've selected a region on
which to apply the transformation.
It will add "cut here" lines around the block of code, like this:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
for i in `seq 1 10`; do
echo $i;
done
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
If you use Gnus (maybe others as well) for reading this, you
should not see the separator lines, and see the code with a
yellow background.
Others will see the line, which we'll be less nice, but will
provide the same effect of clarity.
Best regards,
Seb
--
Sébastien Vauban
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Orgmode] desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-16 15:05 ` [Orgmode] " Sébastien Vauban
@ 2009-01-16 21:05 ` Allan Gottlieb
[not found] ` <mailman.5078.1232139937.26697.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Allan Gottlieb @ 2009-01-16 21:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
At Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:05:41 +0100 Sébastien Vauban <zthjwsqqafhv@spammotel.com> wrote:
> It will add "cut here" lines around the block of code, like this:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> for i in `seq 1 10`; do
> echo $i;
> done
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> If you use Gnus (maybe others as well) for reading this, you
> should not see the separator lines, and see the code with a
> yellow background.
I do use gnus (5.11), but do see the lines and don't see the yellow
background. Is there some needed "article washing"?
thanks,
allan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <mailman.5078.1232139937.26697.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>]
* Re: [Orgmode] desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
[not found] ` <mailman.5078.1232139937.26697.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2009-01-20 13:08 ` Sébastien Vauban
2009-01-22 9:42 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-01-20 13:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs-mXXj517/zsQ
Hi Allan,
>> It will add "cut here" lines around the block of code, like this:
>>
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> for i in `seq 1 10`; do
>> echo $i;
>> done
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>
>> If you use Gnus (maybe others as well) for reading this, you
>> should not see the separator lines, and see the code with a
>> yellow background.
>
> I do use gnus (5.11), but do see the lines and don't see the
> yellow background. Is there some needed "article washing"?
I don't see anything obvious in my config file that would
explain this. I have the impression (maybe wrong) that this is a
standard setting.
Sorry for not being able to help you further on this.
Seb
--
Sébastien Vauban
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Orgmode] desirability of boxquote-style snippets for helping new users
2009-01-20 13:08 ` Sébastien Vauban
@ 2009-01-22 9:42 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2009-01-22 9:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
On Tue, Jan 20 2009, Sébastien Vauban wrote:
>>> It will add "cut here" lines around the block of code, like this:
>>>
>>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>>> for i in `seq 1 10`; do
>>> echo $i;
>>> done
>>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>>
>>> If you use Gnus (maybe others as well) for reading this, you
>>> should not see the separator lines, and see the code with a
>>> yellow background.
>>
>> I do use gnus (5.11), but do see the lines and don't see the
>> yellow background. Is there some needed "article washing"?
>
> I don't see anything obvious in my config file that would
> explain this. I have the impression (maybe wrong) that this is a
> standard setting.
It is standard, but you need Gnus 5.13 (i.e. Emacs 23) or No Gnus
(development version).
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread