From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Riley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs's popularity Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:28:35 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: References: <2103fd36-c5cd-4e8d-a74f-34697a369934@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <003101c954de$f95a3000$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87skop8cc7.fsf@iki.fi> <20081215210907.GB3848@groll.co.za> <87ljuh86il.fsf@iki.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1229381447 22158 80.91.229.12 (15 Dec 2008 22:50:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:50:47 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 15 23:51:52 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LCMH4-0003US-3Y for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:51:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55096 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LCMFs-00067w-3U for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:49:36 -0500 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.k-dsl.de!news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!usenet238.motzarella.org!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 33 Original-X-Trace: news.eternal-september.org U2FsdGVkX1+c0VIFY2zgK7Ai59PJt2hV4L7d483GKHAfKlYfQhZ0YYUsYBDhlQ87FfZYI4WtBW5rq2eSaHEhG8xVuWzD13KS8hUy6VWoraOBdm5C+S061/97cy5SCAG4ET8uhqY686Uw4ojwZfeMVQ== Original-X-Complaints-To: Please send complaints to abuse@motzarella.org with full headers Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:30:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1+uyJzBlXq1vFqj4oeYftNLkc5T7xFSu45pU90LM0fbCQ== Cancel-Lock: sha1:nYBnaCSHSzmD+5PHcFX5U4/AUPM= User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:165325 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:60656 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman" writes: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:37 PM, Teemu Likonen wrote: >> But Vim is not only installed; it's really used a lot. In Debian Vim has >> always been a bit more popular than Emacs but in the first half of 2007 >> Vim really got popular (around Vim 7.1 and Debian 4.0 release). This >> "used actively" graph compares vim-common, emacs21-bin-common and >> emacs22-bin-common packages: >> >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5thmmx > > That is a bit strange since the vi emulator Viper in Emacs is now so good. > Not strange at all Lennart, Why would someone run the Emacs OS to run emulated vim when they can run the real thing in 100th of the footprint? The big problem is simply that Emacs is far less approachable than Vim. No matter what people say, I know from personal experience that people balk at the Tutorial which still emphasises center keys as opposed to arrows keys. It might appear minor to the seasoned emacs user but its not to the average new adopter who is used to standard Windows type CUA editors. I consider myself a pretty decent Emacs user now and I use the arrow keys ... In addition, and importantly, the type which stick with Emacs and know how it works are far less likely to by flag waving fan boys - something Vi/m has always had an abundance of.... -- important and urgent problems of the technology of today are no longer the satisfactions of the primary needs or of archetypal wishes, but the reparation of the evils and damages by the technology of yesterday. ~Dennis Gabor, Innovations: Scientific, Technological and Social, 1970