Behavior of M-x and A-x

Behavior of M-x and A-x

[Peter Weiss]

Hello,

sitting on a Sun keyboard, which behaves always a bit unusual...

There are two keys on my keyboard: One marked with a diamond and the
other one with "Alt" letters. Both behave different. So "M-x" and
"A-x" give different commands. The usual meta commands like "M-x",
"M-q", etc. are bound to the M-key, all the A-<keys> seem to be
unbound.

Is there a way to make emacs use A-key like the meta key?

TIA -- Peter

-- 
Peter.Weiss@consol.de                         ConSol* Software GmbH
Phone  +49 89 45841-100                       Consulting & Solutions
Mobile +49 177 6040121                        Franziskanerstr. 38
http://www.consol.de                          D-81669 München

Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x

[Xah]

On Aug 11, 10:48 am, Peter Weiss <Peter.We...@ConSol.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> sitting on a Sun keyboard, which behaves always a bit unusual...
>
> There are two keys on my keyboard: One marked with a diamond and the
> other one with "Alt" letters. Both behave different. So "M-x" and
> "A-x" give different commands. The usual meta commands like "M-x",
> "M-q", etc. are bound to the M-key, all the A-<keys> seem to be
> unbound.
>
> Is there a way to make emacs use A-key like the meta key?

not sure how to do it on Solaris. But on Windows and Mac, do it like
this:

; setting the PC keyboard's various keys to Super or Hyper
(setq w32-pass-lwindow-to-system nil
      w32-pass-rwindow-to-system nil
      w32-pass-apps-to-system nil
      w32-lwindow-modifier 'super ;; Left Windows key
      w32-rwindow-modifier 'super ;; Right Windows key
      w32-apps-modifier 'hyper) ;; Menu key

; various settings for the Mac keyboard
(setq mac-option-modifier 'hyper) ; sets the Option key as Hyper
(setq mac-option-modifier 'super) ; sets the Option key as Super
(setq mac-command-modifier 'meta) ; sets the Command key as Meta
(setq mac-control-modifier 'meta) ; sets the Control key as Meta

Then,

The syntax for defining keys with the Super or Hyper modifier keys is
the same as Meta and Control. Use “H” for Hyper, “s” for Super.
Example:

(global-set-key (kbd "H-b") 'cmd) ; H is for hyper
(global-set-key (kbd "s-b") 'cmd) ; lower case “s” is for super

(global-set-key (kbd "M-H-b") 'cmd) ; Meta+Hyper+b
(global-set-key (kbd "M-s-b") 'cmd) ; Meta+Super+b

http://xahlee.org/emacs/keyboard_shortcuts.html

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Xah wrote:
> ; setting the PC keyboard's various keys to Super or Hyper
> (setq w32-pass-lwindow-to-system nil
>       w32-pass-rwindow-to-system nil
>       w32-pass-apps-to-system nil
>       w32-lwindow-modifier 'super ;; Left Windows key
>       w32-rwindow-modifier 'super ;; Right Windows key
>       w32-apps-modifier 'hyper) ;; Menu key


Please note that using lwindow/rwindow like this does not work for all 
key sequences unless you are using the patched Emacs+EmacsW32.

Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x

[B. T. Raven]

Lennart Borgman (gmail) wrote:
> Xah wrote:
>> ; setting the PC keyboard's various keys to Super or Hyper
>> (setq w32-pass-lwindow-to-system nil
>>       w32-pass-rwindow-to-system nil
>>       w32-pass-apps-to-system nil
>>       w32-lwindow-modifier 'super ;; Left Windows key
>>       w32-rwindow-modifier 'super ;; Right Windows key
>>       w32-apps-modifier 'hyper) ;; Menu key
> 
> 
> Please note that using lwindow/rwindow like this does not work for all 
> key sequences unless you are using the patched Emacs+EmacsW32.
> 
> 

Could you give me an example of this, Lennart. I use Keytweak (and 
rearranged keycaps for Dvorak and a bilaterally symmetrical modifier key 
layout [bottom row: super alt ctl spacebar ctl alt super hyper] and I 
haven't run into any problems with it yet. I am not using EmacsW32 
although I have had it installed in the past. The only things that get 
through from the OS when I'm in Emacs are Alt-Tab and Ctl-Alt-Delete.

Ed

Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

B. T. Raven wrote:
> Lennart Borgman (gmail) wrote:
>> Xah wrote:
>>> ; setting the PC keyboard's various keys to Super or Hyper
>>> (setq w32-pass-lwindow-to-system nil
>>>       w32-pass-rwindow-to-system nil
>>>       w32-pass-apps-to-system nil
>>>       w32-lwindow-modifier 'super ;; Left Windows key
>>>       w32-rwindow-modifier 'super ;; Right Windows key
>>>       w32-apps-modifier 'hyper) ;; Menu key
>>
>>
>> Please note that using lwindow/rwindow like this does not work for all 
>> key sequences unless you are using the patched Emacs+EmacsW32.
>>
>>
> 
> Could you give me an example of this, Lennart. I use Keytweak (and 
> rearranged keycaps for Dvorak and a bilaterally symmetrical modifier key 
> layout [bottom row: super alt ctl spacebar ctl alt super hyper] and I 
> haven't run into any problems with it yet. I am not using EmacsW32 
> although I have had it installed in the past. The only things that get 
> through from the OS when I'm in Emacs are Alt-Tab and Ctl-Alt-Delete.


I do not remember very well any longer since I use the patched version 
where this can not happen (if you tell Emacs to protect you from it). 
However it could happen with any of those lwindow/rwindow combinations 
that MS Window uses. I know I first noticed it with lwindow-e.

Though it might depend on other things too. The only thing I know is 
that it is not guaranteed to work at all if you are not using the 
patches I have in Emacs+EmacsW32. (I mean accordning to the specs from MS.)

If you want to know more then look at MS for LowLevelKeyboardProc.

That is why I have those patches. And by the way those part of the 
patches does not change Emacs way of workin in any other way. They work 
on a lower level that the rest of Emacs does not see.

If I remember correctly now there is however no guaranteed way at all to 
stop Alt-Tab and Ctl-Alt-Delete from working.

Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x

[Xah]

Xah wrote:
> ; setting the PC keyboard's various keys to Super or Hyper
> (setq w32-pass-lwindow-to-system nil
>       w32-pass-rwindow-to-system nil
>       w32-pass-apps-to-system nil
>       w32-lwindow-modifier 'super ;; Left Windows key
>       w32-rwindow-modifier 'super ;; Right Windows key
>       w32-apps-modifier 'hyper) ;; Menu key

Lennart Borgman wrote:

> Please note that using lwindow/rwindow like this does not work for all
> key sequences unless you are using the patched Emacs+EmacsW32.

What is the proper way to set it on Windows?

btw, i got those code from somewhere i don't remember. Now looking at
the w32 prefix, it's prob from your page. Thanks.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Xah wrote:
> Xah wrote:
>> ; setting the PC keyboard's various keys to Super or Hyper
>> (setq w32-pass-lwindow-to-system nil
>>       w32-pass-rwindow-to-system nil
>>       w32-pass-apps-to-system nil
>>       w32-lwindow-modifier 'super ;; Left Windows key
>>       w32-rwindow-modifier 'super ;; Right Windows key
>>       w32-apps-modifier 'hyper) ;; Menu key
> 
> Lennart Borgman wrote:
> 
>> Please note that using lwindow/rwindow like this does not work for all
>> key sequences unless you are using the patched Emacs+EmacsW32.
> 
> What is the proper way to set it on Windows?


The only thing that the patched version really offers in this regards is 
the possibility to actually avoid sending lwindow etc to the system:

LRESULT
CALLBACK
LowLevelKeyboardProc(INT nCode, WPARAM wParam, LPARAM lParam)
{
...
             case VK_LWIN:
               {
                 bHandle = NILP(Vw32_pass_lwindow_to_system);
                 break;
               }
             case VK_RWIN:
               {
                 bHandle = NILP(Vw32_pass_rwindow_to_system);
                 break;
               }
             case VK_CAPITAL:
               {
                 bHandle = NILP(Vw32_enable_caps_lock);
                 break;
               }
             case VK_NUMLOCK:
               {
                 bHandle = NILP(Vw32_enable_num_lock);
                 break;
               }
             case VK_MENU:
             case VK_LMENU:
             case VK_RMENU:
               {
                 bHandle = NILP(Vw32_pass_alt_to_system);
                 break;
               }
       if (bHandle) {
         // Just to be sure check we are in the right thread
         if (GetCurrentThreadId() == dwWindowsThreadId) {
           // Do we have keyboard focus?
           HWND hwnd = GetFocus();
           if (0 != hwnd) {
             SendMessage (hwnd, msg, wParamMsg, lParamMsg);
             return TRUE;
           }
         }
       }
     }
   HHOOK hhook; return CallNextHookEx(hhook, nCode, wParam, lParam);
}


And then it also offers easy way to set things up up, see w32-meta.el 
that comes with the patched Emacs+EmacsW32.

Emacsw32 website suggestion [Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x]

[Xah]

On Aug 12, 5:13 am, "Lennart Borgman (gmail)"
<lennart.borg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Xahwrote:
> >Xahwrote:
> >> ; setting the PC keyboard's various keys to Super or Hyper
> >> (setq w32-pass-lwindow-to-system nil
> >>       w32-pass-rwindow-to-system nil
> >>       w32-pass-apps-to-system nil
> >>       w32-lwindow-modifier 'super ;; Left Windows key
> >>       w32-rwindow-modifier 'super ;; Right Windows key
> >>       w32-apps-modifier 'hyper) ;; Menu key
>
> > Lennart Borgman wrote:
>
> >> Please note that using lwindow/rwindow like this does not work for all
> >> key sequences unless you are using the patched Emacs+EmacsW32.
>
> > What is the proper way to set it on Windows?
>
> The only thing that the patched version really offers in this regards is
> the possibility to actually avoid sending lwindow etc to the system:
>
> LRESULT
> CALLBACK
> LowLevelKeyboardProc(INT nCode, WPARAM wParam, LPARAM lParam)
> {
> ...
>              case VK_LWIN:
>                {
>                  bHandle = NILP(Vw32_pass_lwindow_to_system);
>                  break;
>                }
>              case VK_RWIN:
>                {
>                  bHandle = NILP(Vw32_pass_rwindow_to_system);
>                  break;
>                }
>              case VK_CAPITAL:
>                {
>                  bHandle = NILP(Vw32_enable_caps_lock);
>                  break;
>                }
>              case VK_NUMLOCK:
>                {
>                  bHandle = NILP(Vw32_enable_num_lock);
>                  break;
>                }
>              case VK_MENU:
>              case VK_LMENU:
>              case VK_RMENU:
>                {
>                  bHandle = NILP(Vw32_pass_alt_to_system);
>                  break;
>                }
>        if (bHandle) {
>          // Just to be sure check we are in the right thread
>          if (GetCurrentThreadId() == dwWindowsThreadId) {
>            // Do we have keyboard focus?
>            HWND hwnd = GetFocus();
>            if (0 != hwnd) {
>              SendMessage (hwnd, msg, wParamMsg, lParamMsg);
>              return TRUE;
>            }
>          }
>        }
>      }
>    HHOOK hhook; return CallNextHookEx(hhook, nCode, wParam, lParam);
>
> }
>
> And then it also offers easy way to set things up up, see w32-meta.el
> that comes with the patched Emacs+EmacsW32.

Thanks. Quite complicated i don't understand. That seems c source.

-------------

there's some suggestion about your emacsw32 site.

• drop the name to just EmacsW32. As opposed to Emacs+EmacsW32.

for those who needs to know the distinction, they can trivially find
out by clicking a link.

• redo the entry page so it's simply a site for EmacsW32, as a pre-
compiled emacs distro for MS Windows. With this message simple. Then
links to separate pages about features, source code, explanation of
patch, on reason to use, change log, etc.

The point is that, when user goes to your site,
http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/EmacsW32.html
she can immediately get the idea that this is a pre-compiled emacs
distro for Windows with ease to use in mind. Then, she can click on
the big download button to try it out. If she's a tech geeker, she can
easily check whether there's patch she can dowload, or other info.

Aquamac or Carbon Emacs' website are good examples of this approach.

• Put the author name in the front page. Unless for some personal
reason, you intentionally don't want people to know who made it, it
should have author name.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: Emacsw32 website suggestion [Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x]

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Xah wrote:
> Thanks. Quite complicated i don't understand. That seems c source.

Just look at the structure. I think you can guess what is going on from 
that.

> there's some suggestion about your emacsw32 site.
> 
> • drop the name to just EmacsW32. As opposed to Emacs+EmacsW32.

Thanks, but I have struggled quite a bit with that one. There has been a 
lot of misunderstandings and because of that I prefer Emacs+EmacsW32.

> • redo the entry page so it's simply a site for EmacsW32, as a pre-
> compiled emacs distro for MS Windows. With this message simple. Then
> links to separate pages about features, source code, explanation of
> patch, on reason to use, change log, etc.

You mean the page

   http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/Emacs.html

Yes, it is out of sync so to say now. Thanks.

Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x

[B. T. Raven]

Lennart Borgman (gmail) wrote:
> B. T. Raven wrote:
>> Lennart Borgman (gmail) wrote:
>>> Xah wrote:
>>>> ; setting the PC keyboard's various keys to Super or Hyper
>>>> (setq w32-pass-lwindow-to-system nil
>>>>       w32-pass-rwindow-to-system nil
>>>>       w32-pass-apps-to-system nil
>>>>       w32-lwindow-modifier 'super ;; Left Windows key
>>>>       w32-rwindow-modifier 'super ;; Right Windows key
>>>>       w32-apps-modifier 'hyper) ;; Menu key
>>>
>>>
>>> Please note that using lwindow/rwindow like this does not work for 
>>> all key sequences unless you are using the patched Emacs+EmacsW32.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Could you give me an example of this, Lennart. I use Keytweak (and 
>> rearranged keycaps for Dvorak and a bilaterally symmetrical modifier 
>> key layout [bottom row: super alt ctl spacebar ctl alt super hyper] 
>> and I haven't run into any problems with it yet. I am not using 
>> EmacsW32 although I have had it installed in the past. The only things 
>> that get through from the OS when I'm in Emacs are Alt-Tab and 
>> Ctl-Alt-Delete.
> 
> 
> I do not remember very well any longer since I use the patched version 
> where this can not happen (if you tell Emacs to protect you from it). 
> However it could happen with any of those lwindow/rwindow combinations 
> that MS Window uses. I know I first noticed it with lwindow-e.
> 
> Though it might depend on other things too. The only thing I know is 
> that it is not guaranteed to work at all if you are not using the 
> patches I have in Emacs+EmacsW32. (I mean accordning to the specs from MS.)
> 
> If you want to know more then look at MS for LowLevelKeyboardProc.
> 
> That is why I have those patches. And by the way those part of the 
> patches does not change Emacs way of workin in any other way. They work 
> on a lower level that the rest of Emacs does not see.
> 
> If I remember correctly now there is however no guaranteed way at all to 
> stop Alt-Tab and Ctl-Alt-Delete from working.

Thanks again. Besides S-e, S- r,f,m, and d, both right and left, also 
raise the OS. That should be easy to remember. Since I don't want to 
bother disabling those keychords  I will make a virtue of necessity and 
consider the behavior to be a feature rather than a bug. These reserved 
keys almost make a mnemonic:

R(T)FM, DummEe ;-)

Ed

Re: Emacsw32 website suggestion [Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x]

[David Combs]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3113 bytes --]

In article <mailman.16448.1218550117.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>,
Lennart Borgman (gmail) <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
>Xah wrote:
>> Thanks. Quite complicated i don't understand. That seems c source.
>
>Just look at the structure. I think you can guess what is going on from 
>that.
>
>> there's some suggestion about your emacsw32 site.
>> 
>> • drop the name to just EmacsW32. As opposed to Emacs+EmacsW32.
>
>Thanks, but I have struggled quite a bit with that one. There has been a 
>lot of misunderstandings and because of that I prefer Emacs+EmacsW32.
>
>> • redo the entry page so it's simply a site for EmacsW32, as a pre-
>> compiled emacs distro for MS Windows. With this message simple. Then
>> links to separate pages about features, source code, explanation of
>> patch, on reason to use, change log, etc.
>
>You mean the page
>
>   http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/Emacs.html
>
>Yes, it is out of sync so to say now. Thanks.
>
>
>

------- and on sunday, 7sept08:



The point is that, when user goes to your site,
http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/EmacsW32.html
she can immediately get the idea that this is a pre-compiled emacs
distro for Windows with ease to use in mind. Then, she can click on
the big download button to try it out. If she's a tech geeker, she can
easily check whether there's patch she can dowload, or other info.

[Need updating?

  re http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/EmacsW32.html:

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:16:57 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Connection: close
Server: Apache
Last-Modified: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:16:24 GMT
ETag: "2496a8a-c7b4-4845b4a8"
Content-Length: 51124
]


Aquamac or Carbon Emacs' website are good examples of this approach.


nu.emacs.help #166768 (548 + 237 more)
From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>
[2] Re: Emacsw32 website suggestion [Re: Behavior of M-x and A-x]
Date: Tue Aug 12 10:08:25 EDT 2008
Lines: 26

Xah wrote:
> Thanks. Quite complicated i don't understand. That seems c source.

Just look at the structure. I think you can guess what is going on from 
that.

> there's some suggestion about your emacsw32 site.
> 
> â^@¢ drop the name to just EmacsW32. As opposed to Emacs+EmacsW32.

Thanks, but I have struggled quite a bit with that one. There has been a 
lot of misunderstandings and because of that I prefer Emacs+EmacsW32.

> â^@¢ redo the entry page so it's simply a site for EmacsW32, as a pre-
> compiled emacs distro for MS Windows. With this message simple. Then
> links to separate pages about features, source code, explanation of
> patch, on reason to use, change log, etc.

You mean the page

   http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/Emacs.html

Yes, it is out of sync so to say now. Thanks.


[Yes indeed:

re:    http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/Emacs.html

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:19:28 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Connection: close
Server: Apache
Last-Modified: Thu, 17 May 2007 02:50:08 GMT
ETag: "6d6959-1e69-464bc2e0"
Content-Length: 7785

]





That is, are these things ok to use, or do you still
have some things that NEED (BADLY NEED) to be done?


Thanks,

David