From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PL support Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 21:41:23 +0300 Message-ID: References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <0d678371-2df7-519e-5ec0-7e26bfa6ea34@gmail.com> <11dff979-002e-e03e-2e3e-cdb09fcc409e@yandex.ru> <8017be3d-a4ed-61eb-9bdb-9a95c77a0698@gmail.com> <3adf65ae-fd0d-4fee-adfd-e11d39a148fc@yandex.ru> <01e211df-acfb-fb8a-eedc-7cb439b64cd8@yandex.ru> <57491476-b7d1-ed1e-9eaf-bc45db607ae8@yandex.ru> <835zd2bf2h.fsf@gnu.org> <1c43f78b-2bc5-8c81-4a57-ba63bb721c85@yandex.ru> <83wo5i9z21.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftc69ute.fsf@gnu.org> <83a72e9t6f.fsf@gnu.org> <833685anvq.fsf@gnu.org> <83blmt84q1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="109482"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: ams@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, cpitclaudel@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 12 20:43:53 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jYZsf-000SLq-F9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 20:43:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43484 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYZse-00020L-H4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 14:43:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41202) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYZqO-00087N-Cq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 14:41:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::329]:40101) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYZqK-0003y2-KT; Tue, 12 May 2020 14:41:32 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id u16so24823504wmc.5; Tue, 12 May 2020 11:41:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=h+CQC4tShEj/P1nwrad2WOD1tCvkqvBAw+9tSHt+2WQ=; b=WJLHSDbqJB/eV1WYXYbooHk+GKZE7wJh/hsyp8LbFhNc/V90wdm9qYUuM5el+IXXAa lbKzepZtg4CSJW+i6KlerdMqV12af3rjWb49ErI7wexiUmjnEZOqbWtohl8Wb0VhXqYt JpRvpe3dgMHV4qnyCYm9lbKH4jMQOWsnFm2nx4blfsCmiTl+/wi6RHJjiDhpAJCab6pT wjlxI6d33CUO3OVc8p24fBUAUUsHhiUJrHoS+ZmsMJHb2mhtfqQl0LgvebCTLS2XUiPH /d446qq31aXjgbbW94q8hwb23J3eS3j8UOyQszF94r9eXiP8tOg3cve0B4hvKcp6V4Te Uhew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=h+CQC4tShEj/P1nwrad2WOD1tCvkqvBAw+9tSHt+2WQ=; b=CUx7R6DttTrIYIHjJzpqJ15CYcMHXVrgvTJipXU6z0W197xtz4XBPOgp9Swu7Pa7G2 hfc2G/IOoYVOIXDF2qeDrqVIu3Yb6qA0oZSrgsHkp4xJzjrlehwfT7+3eobaQA5dZ3M9 xBWMCivoKIYVJOva/c8p4axX+hJTDXbEmntfQ1ZCgzosDq5r4JNgx8r7r/+rphO3gM1e a7cZUOxDpLWn3DFPrs0gHtu/3A3Ca5y5KqwqHne0wWQ6e2ytOqcRebNra17NHGg9nkOY 185uIV81sowbfqU03Vy6aOJyVjpc0bVS6/EqC6Wi5qmobHE4iCHY7iccDa7qRvdrd6so zdrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYFW8tXw0DVNf/rR1OpXoqeQh2K9Wlof0+W01DXaVP3IZxW4G18 ALR4dbAkW0faFQm6enXAm7cE7Q8V X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLps5A1RYQb6f1FDRSfZv2dgY0TemEXORGGfopxkAgZdoko2cBcega71FCsg2KXOYzjIMR+Ig== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:790e:: with SMTP id l14mr37809603wme.174.1589308885815; Tue, 12 May 2020 11:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a13sm23482664wrv.67.2020.05.12.11.41.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 May 2020 11:41:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83blmt84q1.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::329; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x329.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250020 Archived-At: On 12.05.2020 20:04, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: ams@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, cpitclaudel@gmail.com, >> monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 16:55:17 +0300 >> >>>> So what does the lead maintainer being strapped for time have to do with >>>> it? Other people routinely work on GNU Emacs and various related projects. >>> They do, and everyone's contributions are greatly appreciated. But >>> our standards and conventions, and our procedures are common and >>> should be agreed upon, regardless of who personally does what. >>> Otherwise we will cease to be a coherent project with common goals and >>> practices. >> >> Sorry, I'm not sure what this is going to mean in practice. And you >> going to dismiss an existing sub-project of Emacs (GNU ELPA) because you >> don't have enough time AND because people haven't been formatting their >> commit messages correctly? > > Sorry, I cannot parse this. I didn't mention dismissing anything, and > I don't see how my lack of time and formatting of commit messages have > any relation to what I wrote (or to the general issue at hand, > really). A reminder, then: I gave an argument for keeping GNU ELPA around, and you responded with "have enough on our plate already". I wasn't asking for an immediate fix to that problem, but pointing out that, to my knowledge, GNU ELPA might be the best positioned to tackle this problem, now or later, among all existing popular package archives for Emacs. Anyway, since you (or RMS) don't seem to support the goals with which apparently Stefan created it, and some people contributed to it, these arguments may be moot now. Going back to the question of coding standards: I don't see anything outrageous in the idea that some parts of Emacs (e.g. the "main core", however we would define that) could be subject to more strict documentation requirements that some other, more faster-moving parts. As long as everybody is clear on the criteria.