From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.mail.mh-e.devel Subject: Re: Compatibility aliases, defsubsts, and macros... Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:41:03 +0900 Message-ID: References: <22611.1138658353@olgas.newt.com> <25022.1138664207@olgas.newt.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1138669075 16238 80.91.229.2 (31 Jan 2006 00:57:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:57:55 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 31 01:57:52 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F3jq6-0001uq-SG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 01:57:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F3jt5-0007Uq-NX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:00:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1F3joT-0006Xs-ES for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:56:06 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1F3joM-0006WD-TO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:56:03 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F3jcw-0002ib-IC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:44:10 -0500 Original-Received: from [66.249.92.200] (helo=uproxy.gmail.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1F3jbK-0004Du-Qm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:42:30 -0500 Original-Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q2so16450uge for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:41:03 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=YPfGIK6KUbCTMr3AzSLqHC9aTIAYUAZPZaYLwqH+SKG7ejBGziXGoETOw8wNKKS82wJLCxkP40lIpy19kNLWHDrpkwU3lzDWFliFuMdXhYjr30ZpJQfdwvH8t7g3OOSfWvLb2LcTmJbinCYdlynTCV4HZfd/GFGvtT44gSJPi4w= Original-Received: by 10.48.255.14 with SMTP id c14mr932426nfi; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:41:03 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.48.1.9 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:41:03 -0800 (PST) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org, mh-e-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <25022.1138664207@olgas.newt.com> Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:49804 gmane.mail.mh-e.devel:11466 Archived-At: 2006/1/31, Bill Wohler : > > #2 is very important; the bad old practice of just defining the > > standard functions on systems which didn't have it built in (as you > > demonstrate) caused many problems. > > Just out of curiosity, do you remember the problems? It intereferes with other packages that are trying to test the environment by probing the existance or non-existance of certain functions. So while it may work fine with just _one_ such package installed, as soon as you try to load the next one, things blow up.=20 Well, usually not "blow up", but instead subtle and hard-to-diagnose misbehavior. [If all packages (1) _only_ used function testing on a function-by-function basis, and (2) defined subsitute definitions which were perfectly functional, and (3) did not use function testing for any purpose other than defining a single replacement function, _then_ it might all work -- but these conditions are most definitely not satisfied by many packages out there, and even a single package can cause grief for all the others loaded with it.] w3 is probably the most famous case of code that used this practice and caused problems as a result. -miles -- Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.