From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Antialiased text on X11 Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:59:57 +0900 Message-ID: References: <20050310231530.GH3992@boetes.org> Reply-To: snogglethorpe@gmail.com, miles@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111194063 22445 80.91.229.2 (19 Mar 2005 01:01:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 01:01:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 19 02:01:03 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCSKo-0001pd-QS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 02:00:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCSbO-0001pC-9R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:18:07 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DCSZl-0001IT-Nq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:16:26 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DCSZh-0001GT-HB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:16:22 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCSZg-0001Fw-32 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:16:20 -0500 Original-Received: from [64.233.184.197] (helo=wproxy.gmail.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DCSJp-0004Mw-MK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:59:57 -0500 Original-Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so124202wri for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:59:57 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=EnYTv5gZQ31DzKGp6Knf90zYiP46RbJDZ4Ms32PlLFDeWT18XMhiFBsrKBvaDPxfRxvwImVel8c0lz6BbWAmvGlviNdcCBHx7xc2HEzo/a+D1XYmnTMr7g9QaHPWmPp+Z+P/ci2eJ71ofJuWSAiCPx35QfazD2AL6d4NO3AjZT8= Original-Received: by 10.54.20.6 with SMTP id 6mr3706162wrt; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:59:57 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.54.19.70 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:59:57 -0800 (PST) Original-To: Ali Ijaz Sheikh In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:34755 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:34755 On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:21:06 -0500, Ali Ijaz Sheikh wrote: > > A lot of people _think_ they need AA support. Until I tell them about > > the terminus-font that is. :-) > > I think that is a generalization; and a matter of opinion. Well, surely not, since he was relating his experience, not stating a general rule... :-) But I understand your point. > The fact of the matter is that anti-aliased > fonts specially on LCD screens look much better than non-antialiased > fonts. This however, _is_ a generalization, and a matter of opinion. I use beautiful anti-aliased fonts (with sub-pixel rendering on an LCD) every day in firefox and gnome apps (ft2's auto-hinting is incredibly good), and I also use Emacs alongside them. Emacs is not noticeably less beautiful. The reason is simply that -- like Hans -- I've found a font that I really like which looks good without anti-aliasing. I think that in general what Hans says is correct: it depends very much on the particular font whether anti-aliasing helps significantly or not (there are certain fonts which I far _prefer_ "non-smoothed", and wish I knew how to make ft stop smoothing just those fonts). However Emacs not supporting anti-aliasing certainly restricts one's choices of fonts, because many fonts out there don't look good without AA, and one's choice of sizes, because at extremely small sizes AA becomes much more necessary. If a user particularly likes a font that needs AA, he's surely going to be a bit annoyed that he can't use it in Emacs. Obviously you are. :-) So I think Emacs should definitely support AA when it can, but it's surely not as fundamental a requirement as has been suggested... [The question of whether to support just xft or try to go for an entire new rendering layer like Cairo is interesting -- my impression is that porting to a new rendering layer is actually fairly straight-forward; it might be the easier task than figuring out the convoluted Emacs font-selection machinery (required in either case I guess -- but it means that "xft only" might not be any easier really)!] -Miles -- Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.