From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20038: 25.0.50; (elisp) `Hooks for Loading' not updated correctly Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 09:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1425832164 18106 80.91.229.3 (8 Mar 2015 16:29:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 16:29:24 +0000 (UTC) To: 20038@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 08 17:29:12 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe4l-0000Vo-Gm for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 17:29:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39645 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe4k-0007oU-UF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:29:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56564) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe4g-0007lc-Fl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:29:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe4d-0000BG-0T for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:29:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:40991) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe4c-0000BC-TH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:29:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe4c-0005w4-LF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:29:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2015 16:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 20038 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.142583208322740 (code B ref -1); Sun, 08 Mar 2015 16:29:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2015 16:28:03 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39559 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe3e-0005uh-Qw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:28:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54692) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe3c-0005uE-OC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:28:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe3W-0008Ve-MM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:27:55 -0400 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:36158) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe3W-0008Va-J2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:27:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56414) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe3V-0006ie-CY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:27:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe3S-0008VE-5Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:27:53 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:27200) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUe3R-0008VA-Ug for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 12:27:50 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t28GRmKe014873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sun, 8 Mar 2015 16:27:48 GMT Original-Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t28GRleh021544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 8 Mar 2015 16:27:47 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t28GRkQ1018809 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 2015 16:27:47 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:100273 Archived-At: `with-eval-after-load' was introduced for the reasons described in the bug #13021 report: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D13021 Unfortunately, when that macro was added the doc for `eval-after-load' was removed from the Elisp manual. And yet there are references to it (and no references to the doc for `with-eval-after-load', which was added. Personally, I don't think the doc for `eval-after-load' should have been removed, but that opinion is primarily a minority one, and it is beside the point of this bug report. 1. All doc describing `eval-after-load' was removed from the Elisp=20 manual. And doc for `with-eval-after-load' was added (OK). Unfortunately this paragraph was not updated or removed. It presumably applies equally to `with-eval-afer-load': Normally, well-designed Lisp programs should not use `eval-after-load'. If you need to examine and set the variables defined in another library (those meant for outside use), you can do it immediately--there is no need to wait until the library is loaded. If you need to call functions defined by that library, you should load the library, preferably with `require' (*note Named Features::). (Not that that paragraph is very good or particularly sound, IMO.) But the point here is that it should presumably either be removed or updated to speak of `with-eval-after-load'. 2. Although the doc describing `eval-after-load' was removed, and `eval-after-load' was removed from the index, there remain mentions of `eval-after-load' in the manual, with cross-references to the node that *used to* describe it, so you can find out more about it (but you cannot). Node `Named Features', for example. And node `Coding Conventions'. 3. There is no mention of `eval-after-load' or `with-eval-after-load' in NEWS, AFAICT. Reporting from this version, but I see the same bug in a build from 2015-02-27. In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@gnu.org-20141020195941-icp42t8ttcnud09g Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1'