From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#40968: 28.0.50; (apply nil) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 09:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <874kssm04d.fsf@gmail.com> <6ADF0807-7EBD-4054-8579-4D9AD3065D51@acm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="121690"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Kangas , 40968@debbugs.gnu.org, Noam Postavsky To: Pip Cet , Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 02 18:33:20 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jg9qq-000VaD-EN for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2020 18:33:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36346 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jg9qn-00053v-MD for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2020 12:33:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35842) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jg9qY-00053a-De for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2020 12:33:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:57451) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jg9qY-0000zn-1a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2020 12:33:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jg9qX-0001ft-St for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2020 12:33:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 16:33:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40968 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 40968-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40968.15911155466393 (code B ref 40968); Tue, 02 Jun 2020 16:33:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 40968) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2020 16:32:26 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40764 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jg9py-0001f3-8M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2020 12:32:26 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:43776) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jg9pw-0001er-OW for 40968@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2020 12:32:25 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 052GS4M5011786; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 16:32:14 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=uZc0T0/c8WH0JY2y5Rmm8/Ca0sxEAf95owxfJEywILo=; b=ep/kC5lWNi/NIvX3F1cHY0UmnLpHi6vFaSvm7z9ax5/a03sEg7gK39dlayrK1oajIE/4 kWiOZ42e9LGUonu1Ou1I/D1hQ0EO7U2O5NDe32A7l4mJARWpwy9GOGyo4DxsbVhgAIn/ pRnWGdY4EtJ4W2x7hIqX7vqePMZvLcak6/tIPoX0tPpJBVrF1YbEMiXT+ajAzwFjpUM9 O1B0ysLmm8SdJAHCZE3MhseopBV4Qs0qNU3pRXwD8p3c7J/7OerdMf5aDZ0NA6e+Vo1R 4L0GACHtxsDt996EOMlkqvVWRvra0ZU8s84xFEp5ketI+Hu7tEdr/W5HK4cTsWGOxHju uA== Original-Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 31dkruj1hf-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 02 Jun 2020 16:32:14 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 052GRwf8179728; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 16:32:14 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 31dju1scsp-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 02 Jun 2020 16:32:14 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 052GWAHH023844; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 16:32:10 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5005.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9640 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2006020117 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9640 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 cotscore=-2147483648 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2006020117 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:181412 Archived-At: > I think there's consensus, then.=20 FTR, FWIW: Not a consensus that includes me. I'm in favor of making an incompatible change, to align Emacs with Common Lisp's more reasonable behavior. As I said: Common Lisp is unequivocally in the camp of requiring at least two args. And if Elisp follows that (which I think it should, unless someone can present a good use case for just (apply FUNCTION)), then it should raise an error if there are not at least two args. The only good case presented was to say that this would be an incompatible change. Yes, it would, and we should make it. If you want to, temporarily, issue a compile-time and runtime warning, instead of raising an error, OK. But Emacs should wean code and users off of the undesirable (IMO) behavior that's been allowed. The doc should be changed to discourage such use, and users should be warned that it's deprecated. Just one, non-consensual, opinion.