From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 07:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <83o9d5q1bi.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536589382 20246 195.159.176.226 (10 Sep 2018 14:23:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:23:02 +0000 (UTC) To: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 10 16:22:57 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fzN5b-00057u-Sf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 16:22:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51898 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzN7i-0003x9-9p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:25:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38783) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzN7Z-0003x4-Op for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:24:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzN7V-0007Fd-Q0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:24:57 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:36156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzN7V-0007Em-ER for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:24:53 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w8AEO8nZ159924; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:24:51 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=7AXkdld+Y723sKBdIWqG07obhnTqz50up9gsXude+c0=; b=ozVO2LM6oRY+Dh+Qpbz9N9Cut4E73v36K2/CJfygE7oO5zKnkBBXkIgzMNUfSb9+deJB Yt/PQbbayh76OpM/Q8OF/rr68JQAQ60NUiTo0Y8/vJv85tGNeld3w6nnaC4dMKK4bDO5 jya8/gApi21UCk4O7SN4yd0XsqNgDsJ1WbC+ARsAcLsOoreBmbh2Sslr1Ssg+n7R+wYw iF6BB6LK0FLz2oRUWk2nI/Ip21krNHuVVW53k/mE1Gb4JbFW85zSdbdkaolnE1D8lhpY wCyg9Tmgusdy53yq693Nn0XXmh9RHJMKecgoBD4bhmGhSUSQ1TjP0o0WED10gHkI8gs1 nw== Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2mc5ut6e79-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:24:51 +0000 Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w8AEOosK027605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:24:50 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w8AEOo51016024; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:24:50 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4735.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9011 signatures=668708 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=493 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1809100148 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.86 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229635 Archived-At: > > The _only_ problem I personally have with delete-selection-mode is > > that it also replaces the region created by the likes of "C-x C-x", > > something that "most software out there" does not and cannot do. >=20 > AFAIU the issue here is that you're using C-x C-x as navigation (a habit > you might have gotten from the time when transient-mark-mode was > disabled) rather than as a way to activate the region. >=20 > So I think this is a not a problem with d-s-m but with C-x C-x. Exactly a point that I made too. >From the moment that we introduced the notion of an "active" region (i.e. introduced `transient-mark-mode') the fact that a region is active means, in effect, that you expect to (because you are able to) do something with it. That's not necessarily the case for all uses of `C-x C-x'. When it's not the case, you can use `C-g' to deactivate it. And that's what you would (have to) do if `d-s-m' is enabled and you do not want to act on it (e.g. delete/replace it). If the annoyance for `d-s-m' for a particular user comes only from `C-x C-x' then a solution (for that user) is to have an equivalent of `C-x C-x' that does not activate (or that then deactivates) the region. > Also, I think it's a problem that comes from your habits, and if d-s-m > had always been enabled you'd simply have different habits and wouldn't > suffer from it. >=20 > So I'm not sure it's an argument against d-s-m, really.