From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23426: 25.0.93; dired-do-find-regexp doesn't find newline Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 08:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <<57278BA0.6010604@h-rommerskirchen.de> <4xr3dj7yrk.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <9638d58e-0c5c-a587-c3a6-272254597b88@yandex.ru> <85ff912d-1457-487d-80b2-412389876172@default> <812a118d-331e-4f09-aeda-483ee71b1127@default>> <<838tzpkgtj.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1462375972 13324 80.91.229.3 (4 May 2016 15:32:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 15:32:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 23426@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 04 17:32:35 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1axymw-0000mJ-S9 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 17:32:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48613 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axyms-0000aW-K0 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:32:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49893) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axymh-0000Kb-3y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:32:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axymU-0003tW-8g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:32:13 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:53807) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axymU-0003sI-5u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:32:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1axymQ-0004kB-Rd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:32:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 15:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23426 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23426-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23426.146237590418202 (code B ref 23426); Wed, 04 May 2016 15:32:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23426) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2016 15:31:44 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37910 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1axym8-0004jR-88 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:31:44 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:37875) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1axym7-0004j7-6d for 23426@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:31:43 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u44FVahu019397 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 May 2016 15:31:37 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u44FVaub029761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 May 2016 15:31:36 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u44FVZq3032710; Wed, 4 May 2016 15:31:35 GMT In-Reply-To: <<838tzpkgtj.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:117750 Archived-At: > > > > Do I understand correctly (forgive me if wrong; I have not > > > > studied this, and my Emacs 25 build is quite old) that `A' > > > > in Dired is now bound by default to a command that requires > > > > a user to have an external `grep' command? (This was not > > > > the case previously.) > > > > > > Yusss. And 'find', too. > > > > Ugh. Hard to believe this got accepted, replacing a perfectly > > good command that everyone could use (and has used, for decades) - > > no dependency on anything outside Emacs, worked on all platforms. >=20 > It didn't replace the old command, that one is still there, it just > doesn't have a key binding by default. It's the new feature that should perhaps not have a key. At least it should not grab an existing key. There are plenty of unbound keys in Dired. And why not just provide the command, for now, and let users bind it themselves if they like? > > This new feature should have been added as, uh, err, well, just > > a new feature - a new command, totally unrelated to existing `A' > > etc. Bad idea to usurp `A' for a command that requires a user > > to have `grep' and `find'. Bad Emacs. >=20 > We want to stop maintaining the etags-derived UI for moving > through hits, so this is part of a plan. So what? Introduce the new as optional behavior. Let users decide. What's the hurry to replace? > > But it seems that the new trend in Emacs Dev is to willy nilly > > replace longstanding stuff, rather than just introducing new > > stuff, letting users experiment with it, and after years of > > experience and feedback PERHAPS change some default behavior > > to make better use of it by default. >=20 > FUD. As a matter of fact, we did exactly what you call for: > introduced a new UI and commands to go with them, and let users > experiment with them, while the old ones are still available, and the > way to get back old behavior is described in NEWS. You changed the default behavior immediately. That's a far cry from providing, say, an ELPA package with the new feature and letting users adopt it by choice, and then, after a few years, discussing and deciding whether to replace the existing default behavior. What's the hurry to replace? > OTOH, when Drew will stop assuming "Emacs devs" have ill will, and > release knee-jerk reactions, such as this one, based on that, is > anyone's guess. When will Eli stop personalizing everything? I don't claim ill will - never have. I do see a difference in approach from what has been the practice. What's the imperative behind this key-binding replacement? Why not just offer the new feature as a plus, not a plus-and-minus?