From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Juanma Barranquero" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:00:53 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4884DC7F.6060406@gmail.com> <87myk828zm.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> <873alz1no7.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> <87ljzpqubx.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217494912 27421 80.91.229.12 (31 Jul 2008 09:01:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:01:52 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 31 11:02:41 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KOU3U-0007yw-CH for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:02:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39397 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KOU2U-0001nl-TG for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:01:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KOU1q-0001mK-1R for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:00:58 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KOU1o-0001lP-LZ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:00:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48278 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KOU1n-0001lD-62 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:00:55 -0400 Original-Received: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.176]:29353) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KOU1m-0007Gy-Ea for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:00:54 -0400 Original-Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c21so425783ika.2 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:00:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=NH0MEII8ydarjCp/kiaHS62VPcasEaLvsnWlVZ5pNRo=; b=cm3BNE4hqPrgptA+ocwaL4+vTNY4ftW84EVXl3Te+3UanF97b8Iivcw0Scvv5bk1i+ EAPLOqDtcp7kNkARIcyI+gS3a5k01Ce361TuJ9EEbimfR5K4a1FxO+s3klVIP1u82x/J ewPpapkaK/XYYz0q+5C+8b0GuqLZAVodhtCDo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=sfP+PfdN5TvD5Hu+V7mzayQeW7YIjEnXtIxMNgLV8z9L50pBD5oJcKjfdvZILnF75o jntUkoAQRxtRbpDHdscFIOB4uNUejA4jxzrjLY6M8bUVzPeQFs7WfD2MpsPEvAQlCJYf ruvqddATmstHKi89aTp+ICmO57gy4aA24wCRU= Original-Received: by 10.210.66.1 with SMTP id o1mr10574399eba.135.1217494853106; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.210.71.14 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:00:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87ljzpqubx.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:56073 Archived-At: On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 03:59, Tim X wrote: > Hehe. You see, I think you just proved my point. Only if you're a newbie. :-) > 2. Nobody has suggested changes which are not either a poor choice in > the sense that they lose some of the significant meaning of what the > object/action/function provides or are likely to increase confusion or > are likely to become outdated or out of vogue even faster. Agreed. > 3. Making such changes is not a trivial task despite what Xah argues. Of course. When he talks about "four hours" I'd say he's underestimating the effort by two orders of magnitude... > For example, we change the term > buffer to workspace - do we also change all the functions with the name > buffer in them to have the term workspace? I already pointed out that there were more than 500 functions with "[bB]uffer" in their names... It's sheer madness to think about changing it, not only because of the work, but the impact to users and package developers out there. > I suspect that many of the features found in modern IDEs that > are missing from emacs are actually a much bigger barrier to adoption - > for example, *smart* dynamic completion or fontification based on > semantics rather than syntax or improved font handling and antialiasing > or updating of modes that handle mail, web, etc to support evolving > technology better i.e. javascript support, extended interfaces better > able to handle working with "the cloud" etc. Agreed. > To me, a lot of the arguments about terminology are a bit like people > who meet someone they fall in love with and then start trying to change > them to something else. All to often, this just ends in tears. Either > they succeed in makinig the changes and then realise what they have is > different to what originally attracted them or the person they are > trying to change ends up no longer liking them either because they don't > want to change or as a result of the change, now want something > different. Well, I don't agree with the analogy, because Emacs is by definition THE customizable editor. My Emacs would surely turn your hair white, and yours mine. That Is Good. Certainly I know that I strongly dislike using a bare Emacs without my .emacs customizations (but I wouldn't try to force them on anyone, of course). J