From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Juanma Barranquero" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:11:18 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4884DC7F.6060406@gmail.com> <819feff4-76e3-4bf8-9ece-7b47f099efc2@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <87mykaw8sb.fsf@nonospaz.fatphil.org> <87myk828zm.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216811532 11579 80.91.229.12 (23 Jul 2008 11:12:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:12:12 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 23 13:13:01 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLcHE-00020D-TS for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:13:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60460 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLcGL-0000hS-DA for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:12:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLcFe-0000L5-4G for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:11:22 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLcFc-0000Js-EB for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:11:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51714 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLcFc-0000JY-6w for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:11:20 -0400 Original-Received: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.182]:47588) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KLcFb-00069X-Qy for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:11:20 -0400 Original-Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c21so1701993ika.2 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:11:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=cs97gyhAYYRa5kK3b3PapehepicXwOtl2Uvdq8xboBY=; b=cK2hGjHiz0iUfdlZ1Ge75fJHXFPHrvnAagE7MXy4kpx/MtHnXl9HApehX5AkO4aNEK oeF6KVfybj0SG8bhRzuESvVT5lkYZrF6hskWnRzlLJGP7NLFynBj5wF8NdWkdAOoo98E ruCiGCOwngyCsZzZHAclOKFY80epzFqvE1WRY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=mKfiM4uGmwauNSjfNd6Te59sGtjYrWNXyXM5qKqaYNbQYQO/D3KMsUQuy4jQmE3LJn U2qxZOMPCxRYpifR7XfSjxTs2PazygSe/Jqb6wSf3MhSf4Jidr99harxjLGus6hy7tEG qbUSLwubo76R32ygHSLVlprf7LYgv5gneq6S0= Original-Received: by 10.210.10.1 with SMTP id 1mr5830304ebj.167.1216811478577; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.210.71.14 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:11:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87myk828zm.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:55849 Archived-At: On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:25, Tim X wrote: > so what? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what does it really > matter if new users have a bit of a learning curve? You talk about "a bit of a learning curve". I worry about the people who simply leaves Emacs behind. I know people who are happy users of Emacs, who do know almost nothing of it and would not even have used it, had not I customized the font-lock colors to their liking. > Why should emacs > appear to be just like any other text editor? There's a difference between "appearing to be just like any other text editor" and "using common terms for common things". Emacs certainly is not the only one to use windows, but it is the only one calling them "frames", AFAIK. > While probably sounding > provocative, how many new uses who are not prepared to learn emacs > terminology are actually going to contribute anything? If they don't > contribute anything, what does it matter if there is only 1 a year or > 100 a week? In my view, the goal of free software is giving the users freedom, not blackmailing them into contributing. Emacs has a Windows port because it has been deemed useful to the free software cause, even if only a tiny fraction of them will ever contribute. > Taking things in another direction, could it not be that as emacs is > significantly different in approach, functionality and extensibility > than nearly all other editors, might not a different terminology > actually help new uses grasp that this is not just another editor? Even if it is so significantly different, common things are common things. It would be silly to call files with another name just to make the point that Emacs is different, for example. > There could be an argument that making users learn from scratch and with > different terminology will help because it makes them adopt a new > mindset and stops them from comparing it to what they already know? I think there are people who prefer to learn from scratch, and others who really do it better if they have something to base on. Juanma