From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Juanma Barranquero" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:59:40 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4884DC7F.6060406@gmail.com> <819feff4-76e3-4bf8-9ece-7b47f099efc2@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <87mykaw8sb.fsf@nonospaz.fatphil.org> <87r69k29d6.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216811034 10025 80.91.229.12 (23 Jul 2008 11:03:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:03:54 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 23 13:04:36 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLc93-0007fN-BY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:04:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49243 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLc8A-0003Jn-5v for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:03:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLc4N-0002LQ-4B for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:59:43 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLc4M-0002L4-7s for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:59:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36376 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLc4M-0002Ky-2Q for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:59:42 -0400 Original-Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185]:22377) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KLc4L-0004XT-Er for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:59:41 -0400 Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c7so6711412nfi.26 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:59:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=VLLWkwvqb2YBip0dBuFq2bz7xJm8ezad+JbYp03c6oM=; b=BIqoQP2zbX6BEPVA419lwIa6jVYpQisyZKa0fSEkHrhPCJ2IWg7aykuV+8M334gdxS E9/Dr4BruGwcA7kkcP54weAjfk+ZTwcUVw94qxuEsWC7AGkPt57l6uT65eD7J9qUTXeo /BoLr6LsfZfCzOAxiObEBhXxhWowDloy/pAEk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=f8zdTgrtlud/ggpByqKRyRArAsUgrcfHQrCetRwtmd4nOo7LhizVucuo4U8//lcrXY O3l8UNrB6+imkUIlf0gx6YvdemNAuDibD+Py8Px7FNTl81544RV8ZiqBlcmBszA6Lg/1 LYSJGUGVzm5ZmZKxuhAC2GffroHmXkc3ZFnfg= Original-Received: by 10.210.51.10 with SMTP id y10mr5822351eby.93.1216810780598; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.210.71.14 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:59:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87r69k29d6.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:55847 Archived-At: On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:16, Tim X wrote: > I would suggest a third is that as far as I know, there have been no > suggestions for different terms which actually improve the situation. Agreed. Notice I said "at least". > Change for the sake of change is a waste of resources. If the > terminology is going to be changed to something, it needs to be > something that adds real value and which isn't just a 'dumbing down' to > try and increase popularity. I don't think that using common terms and increasing popularity is necessarily related to "dumbing down". But I agree with the first sentence, and I think that the terminology is not going to be changed. > for example, I don't think workspace is any real improvement over > buffer. What would you call all those buffers that users never actually > see? Are they workspaces? Perhaps not. Are they buffers? Most of them no, the data is not on its way to a device or file (which, is, after all, the original CS meaning of buffer Emacs has borrowed from). > the other issue here is the frequency of people who are willing to post > and criticise the terminology as being out of date or misleading or just > inadequate, but who are not prepared to actually do anything about > it. Its easy to rite criticism - actually making things change takes > effort and dedication. If your not prepared to do the work, then I think > people should just be quiet. If you are prepared to do the work, then > just get on with it. If your right, your work will be appreciated and > you may actually improve things. I'm not sure if you're talking now about me (you quoted my message) or Xah. I'm not proposing changing anything, so there's no work to be done. Discussing whether current terms are adequate or not is valuable in itself, if it helps in the choosing of terms for new features. Juanma