~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el

~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el

[Juanma Barranquero]

With the recent introduction of `user-emacs-directory', I've been
wondering... Could someone please clarify the relation between these
things:

 --user                   (option for Emacs)
  init-file-user
  ~/.emacs.                (also _emacs, .emacs.el, _emacs.el)
  ~USER/.emacs             (is that possible on Windows?)
  ~/.emacs.d/init.el
  ~USER/.emacs.d/init.el   (is that possible at all?)

I've read the info nodes "Init File", "Find Init" and "Initial
Options"; I've also looked at the code. I'm still not sure whether

  emacs --user=another

should make ~another/.emacs.d/init.el possible, though the code
suggests that the answer is not (~/.emacs.d/ was hardcoded, and
`user-emacs-directory' does not change that), and I'm not sure why
(conceptually speaking).

             Juanma

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:00:32 +0200
> From: "Juanma Barranquero" <lekktu@gmail.com>
> 
>   ~USER/.emacs             (is that possible on Windows?)

No, we don't support ~USER on Windows yet (although it can be done on
the Windows versions since W2K).  Volunteers welcome.

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el

[Juanma Barranquero]

On 6/13/07, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> No, we don't support ~USER on Windows yet (although it can be done on
> the Windows versions since W2K).  Volunteers welcome.

I wouldn't dismiss the idea of implementing it myself, once the task
is clear enough.

What about my other questions? Should --user=myuser influence whether
init.el is found (I mean, ~myuser/.emacs.d/init.el), or is ~/.emacs.d/
always valid only for the current user?

             Juanma

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:34:00 +0200
> From: "Juanma Barranquero" <lekktu@gmail.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> On 6/13/07, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> > No, we don't support ~USER on Windows yet (although it can be done on
> > the Windows versions since W2K).  Volunteers welcome.
> 
> I wouldn't dismiss the idea of implementing it myself, once the task
> is clear enough.

The task is to map ~USER to

  C:/Documents and Settings/USER/Application Data

For this, we need to extend w32.c:getpwnam to support not just the
current user, but also the other users on the local machine (ask me
about the relevant Windows APIs if you need help finding them), and
then it should Just Work (the actuall expansion happens in
expand-file-name and other similar primitives defined on fileio.c).

> What about my other questions? Should --user=myuser influence whether
> init.el is found (I mean, ~myuser/.emacs.d/init.el), or is ~/.emacs.d/
> always valid only for the current user?

I don't have anything intelligent to say on that, I'm confused myself.

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el

[Juanma Barranquero]

On 6/13/07, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> The task is to map ~USER to
>
>   C:/Documents and Settings/USER/Application Data
>
> For this, we need to extend w32.c:getpwnam to support not just the
> current user, but also the other users on the local machine (ask me
> about the relevant Windows APIs if you need help finding them), and
> then it should Just Work (the actuall expansion happens in
> expand-file-name and other similar primitives defined on fileio.c).

OK, I'll put this issue in my ToDo list.

> I don't have anything intelligent to say on that, I'm confused myself.

Glad to know I'm in good company, then ;-)

             Juanma

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el

[Davis Herring]

> I've read the info nodes "Init File", "Find Init" and "Initial
> Options"; I've also looked at the code. I'm still not sure whether
>
>   emacs --user=another
>
> should make ~another/.emacs.d/init.el possible, though the code
> suggests that the answer is not (~/.emacs.d/ was hardcoded, and
> `user-emacs-directory' does not change that), and I'm not sure why
> (conceptually speaking).

It certainly should!  --user picks a _directory_ (the home directory of a
user), and .emacs, .emacs.d/init.el, etc. are all conceptually relative
filenames in that directory.  I hate to duplicate the
`user-emacs-directory' variable (or whatever it ends up being called), but
those filenames should really get `expand-file-name'd against a home
directory chosen by that option (or by $HOME otherwise).

Davis

-- 
This product is sold by volume, not by mass.  If it appears too dense or
too sparse, it is because mass-energy conversion has occurred during
shipping.

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el

[Juanma Barranquero]

On 6/21/07, Davis Herring <herring@lanl.gov> wrote:

> It certainly should!  --user picks a _directory_ (the home directory of a
> user), and .emacs, .emacs.d/init.el, etc. are all conceptually relative
> filenames in that directory.

Yes, that's my interpretation, too. But ~/.emacs.d/ appeared at least
seven years ago (there's a reference in the ChangeLog from
2000-04-24). It's hard to believe nobody has worried about -u in all
that time. <conspiranoia>Something Else Is At Work...</conspiranoia>

> I hate to duplicate the
> `user-emacs-directory' variable (or whatever it ends up being called), but
> those filenames should really get `expand-file-name'd against a home
> directory chosen by that option (or by $HOME otherwise).

The Function Without a Name can take care of that easily, I think.

             Juanma

~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Hongyi Zhao]

Hi,

As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?

Regards
-- 
Assoc. Prof. Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
Theory and Simulation of Materials
Hebei Polytechnic Vocational and Technical University
NO. 552 North Gangtie Road, Xingtai, China

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Christopher Dimech]

You can have your own set of files for emacs customisation, then
use  ~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el to load them.

It would give you clear distinction between your customisation
and customizations that emacs itself can generate.

Using ~/.emacs is somewhat easier because it is also the location
of your ".bashrc".

C*

> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 10:00 AM
> From: "Hongyi Zhao" <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
> To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Subject: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.
>
> Hi,
>
> As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
>
> Regards
> --
> Assoc. Prof. Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
> Theory and Simulation of Materials
> Hebei Polytechnic Vocational and Technical University
> NO. 552 North Gangtie Road, Xingtai, China
>
>

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Yuri Khan]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:

> As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?

If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into version
control separately from your home directory.

However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in your
home directory.

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Hongyi Zhao]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 6:09 PM Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> > preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
>
> If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
> preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into version
> control separately from your home directory.
>
> However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
> configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
> abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in your
> home directory.

I've tried the following based on your above notes, but it seems that
emacs doesn't pick up the initialization file located under
~/.config/emacs/ automatically.

$ mv .emacs.d/init.el ~/.config/emacs/

Any hints for this problem?

Regards,
-- 
Assoc. Prof. Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
Theory and Simulation of Materials
Hebei Polytechnic Vocational and Technical University
NO. 552 North Gangtie Road, Xingtai, China

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Tim Visher]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 8:51 AM Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 6:09 PM Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> > > preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
> >
> > If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
> > preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into version
> > control separately from your home directory.
> >
> > However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
> > configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
> > abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in your
> > home directory.
>
> I've tried the following based on your above notes, but it seems that
> emacs doesn't pick up the initialization file located under
> ~/.config/emacs/ automatically.
>
> $ mv .emacs.d/init.el ~/.config/emacs/


> Any hints for this problem?
>

You may find this section in the manual helpful.
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Find-Init.html#Find-Init


My two guesses are:

More likely: You still have one of

However ~/.emacs.d, ~/.emacs, and ~/.emacs.el are always preferred if they
> exist, which means that you must delete or rename them in order to use the
> XDG location.


Less likely: You have XDG_CONFIG_HOME set somewhere in your environment to
something other than ~/.config.

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE]

On 2020-12-13 at 21:50:37 +0800,
Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 6:09 PM Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> > > preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
> >
> > If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
> > preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into version
> > control separately from your home directory.
> >
> > However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
> > configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
> > abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in your
> > home directory.
> 
> I've tried the following based on your above notes, but it seems that
> emacs doesn't pick up the initialization file located under
> ~/.config/emacs/ automatically.
> 
> $ mv .emacs.d/init.el ~/.config/emacs/
> 
> Any hints for this problem?

Try removing or renaming ~/.emacs.d, the existence of which might be
fooling emacs into *not* searching for ~/.config/emacs.  For reference,
see:

    https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Find-Init.html

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Perry Smith]

Are you using emacs 27?

> On Dec 13, 2020, at 7:50 AM, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 6:09 PM Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
>>> preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
>> 
>> If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
>> preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into version
>> control separately from your home directory.
>> 
>> However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
>> configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
>> abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in your
>> home directory.
> 
> I've tried the following based on your above notes, but it seems that
> emacs doesn't pick up the initialization file located under
> ~/.config/emacs/ automatically.
> 
> $ mv .emacs.d/init.el ~/.config/emacs/
> 
> Any hints for this problem?
> 
> Regards,
> -- 
> Assoc. Prof. Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
> Theory and Simulation of Materials
> Hebei Polytechnic Vocational and Technical University
> NO. 552 North Gangtie Road, Xingtai, China
> 

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Hongyi Zhao]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 10:06 PM Perry Smith <pedz@easesoftware.com> wrote:
>
> Are you using emacs 27?

I compiled the latest emacs git master version:

$ emacs --version
GNU Emacs 28.0.50


>
> > On Dec 13, 2020, at 7:50 AM, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 6:09 PM Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> >>> preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
> >>
> >> If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
> >> preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into version
> >> control separately from your home directory.
> >>
> >> However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
> >> configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
> >> abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in your
> >> home directory.
> >
> > I've tried the following based on your above notes, but it seems that
> > emacs doesn't pick up the initialization file located under
> > ~/.config/emacs/ automatically.
> >
> > $ mv .emacs.d/init.el ~/.config/emacs/
> >
> > Any hints for this problem?
> >
> > Regards,
> > --
> > Assoc. Prof. Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
> > Theory and Simulation of Materials
> > Hebei Polytechnic Vocational and Technical University
> > NO. 552 North Gangtie Road, Xingtai, China
> >
>


-- 
Assoc. Prof. Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
Theory and Simulation of Materials
Hebei Polytechnic Vocational and Technical University
NO. 552 North Gangtie Road, Xingtai, China

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Hongyi Zhao]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 9:59 PM <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com> wrote:
>
> On 2020-12-13 at 21:50:37 +0800,
> Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 6:09 PM Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> > > > preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
> > >
> > > If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
> > > preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into version
> > > control separately from your home directory.
> > >
> > > However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
> > > configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
> > > abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in your
> > > home directory.
> >
> > I've tried the following based on your above notes, but it seems that
> > emacs doesn't pick up the initialization file located under
> > ~/.config/emacs/ automatically.
> >
> > $ mv .emacs.d/init.el ~/.config/emacs/
> >
> > Any hints for this problem?
>
> Try removing or renaming ~/.emacs.d, the existence of which might be
> fooling emacs into *not* searching for ~/.config/emacs.  For reference,
> see:
>
>     https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Find-Init.html
>

Currently, the ~/.emacs.d directory is used by emacs to store many of
the user data as shown below:

$ ls ~/.emacs.d/
auto-save-list  cnfonts  eaf  elpa  init.el  network-security.data  rime  url

So, if I removed/deleted this folder, then where should I put the
emacs' user data?

Regards
-- 
Assoc. Prof. Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
Theory and Simulation of Materials
Hebei Polytechnic Vocational and Technical University
NO. 552 North Gangtie Road, Xingtai, China

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Tim Visher]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 9:39 AM Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 9:59 PM <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 2020-12-13 at 21:50:37 +0800,
> > Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 6:09 PM Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> > > > > preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
> > > >
> > > > If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
> > > > preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into version
> > > > control separately from your home directory.
> > > >
> > > > However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
> > > > configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
> > > > abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in your
> > > > home directory.
> > >
> > > I've tried the following based on your above notes, but it seems that
> > > emacs doesn't pick up the initialization file located under
> > > ~/.config/emacs/ automatically.
> > >
> > > $ mv .emacs.d/init.el ~/.config/emacs/
> > >
> > > Any hints for this problem?
> >
> > Try removing or renaming ~/.emacs.d, the existence of which might be
> > fooling emacs into *not* searching for ~/.config/emacs.  For reference,
> > see:
> >
> >
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Find-Init.html
> >
>
> Currently, the ~/.emacs.d directory is used by emacs to store many of
> the user data as shown below:
>
> $ ls ~/.emacs.d/
> auto-save-list  cnfonts  eaf  elpa  init.el  network-security.data  rime
> url
>
> So, if I removed/deleted this folder, then where should I put the
> emacs' user data?
>

The operation you really wanted to do in the beginning was probably `mv
~/.emacs.d ~/.config/emacs`. As the manual states the idea is that
~/.config/emacs completely replaces ~/.emacs.d.

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE]

On 2020-12-13 at 22:38:08 +0800,
Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 9:59 PM <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2020-12-13 at 21:50:37 +0800,
> > Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 6:09 PM Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> > > > > preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
> > > >
> > > > If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
> > > > preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into version
> > > > control separately from your home directory.
> > > >
> > > > However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
> > > > configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
> > > > abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in your
> > > > home directory.
> > >
> > > I've tried the following based on your above notes, but it seems that
> > > emacs doesn't pick up the initialization file located under
> > > ~/.config/emacs/ automatically.
> > >
> > > $ mv .emacs.d/init.el ~/.config/emacs/
> > >
> > > Any hints for this problem?
> >
> > Try removing or renaming ~/.emacs.d, the existence of which might be
> > fooling emacs into *not* searching for ~/.config/emacs.  For reference,
> > see:
> >
> >     https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Find-Init.html
> >
> 
> Currently, the ~/.emacs.d directory is used by emacs to store many of
> the user data as shown below:
> 
> $ ls ~/.emacs.d/
> auto-save-list  cnfonts  eaf  elpa  init.el  network-security.data  rime  url
> 
> So, if I removed/deleted this folder, then where should I put the
> emacs' user data?

Presumably, ~/.config/emacs is an alternative to ~/.emacs.d, so you
would move all of that user data from ~/.emacs.d to ~/.config/emacs.
The net result would have been the same if you had renamed ~/.emacs.d to
~/.config/emacs instead of separating the init file from the other user
data.

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Tim Visher]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 9:53 AM <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com> wrote:

> On 2020-12-13 at 22:38:08 +0800,
> Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 9:59 PM <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 2020-12-13 at 21:50:37 +0800,
> > > Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 6:09 PM Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> > > > > > preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
> > > > > preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into
> version
> > > > > control separately from your home directory.
> > > > >
> > > > > However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
> > > > > configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
> > > > > abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in
> your
> > > > > home directory.
> > > >
> > > > I've tried the following based on your above notes, but it seems that
> > > > emacs doesn't pick up the initialization file located under
> > > > ~/.config/emacs/ automatically.
> > > >
> > > > $ mv .emacs.d/init.el ~/.config/emacs/
> > > >
> > > > Any hints for this problem?
> > >
> > > Try removing or renaming ~/.emacs.d, the existence of which might be
> > > fooling emacs into *not* searching for ~/.config/emacs.  For reference,
> > > see:
> > >
> > >
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Find-Init.html
> > >
> >
> > Currently, the ~/.emacs.d directory is used by emacs to store many of
> > the user data as shown below:
> >
> > $ ls ~/.emacs.d/
> > auto-save-list  cnfonts  eaf  elpa  init.el  network-security.data
> rime  url
> >
> > So, if I removed/deleted this folder, then where should I put the
> > emacs' user data?
>
> Presumably, ~/.config/emacs is an alternative to ~/.emacs.d, so you
> would move all of that user data from ~/.emacs.d to ~/.config/emacs.
> The net result would have been the same if you had renamed ~/.emacs.d to
> ~/.config/emacs instead of separating the init file from the other user
> data.
>

LOL 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com and I are really working in
lock-step. xD

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Hongyi Zhao]

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 10:53 PM <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com> wrote:
>
> On 2020-12-13 at 22:38:08 +0800,
> Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 9:59 PM <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 2020-12-13 at 21:50:37 +0800,
> > > Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 6:09 PM Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 16:00, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> > > > > > preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are choosing between these two, ~/.emacs.d/init.el is
> > > > > preferable. Because then you can put the whole .emacs.d into version
> > > > > control separately from your home directory.
> > > > >
> > > > > However keep in mind that Emacs 27 adds support for XDG-style
> > > > > configuration directory, ~/.config/emacs/, which gives you the same
> > > > > abilities as ~/.emacs.d with an added benefit of less clutter in your
> > > > > home directory.
> > > >
> > > > I've tried the following based on your above notes, but it seems that
> > > > emacs doesn't pick up the initialization file located under
> > > > ~/.config/emacs/ automatically.
> > > >
> > > > $ mv .emacs.d/init.el ~/.config/emacs/
> > > >
> > > > Any hints for this problem?
> > >
> > > Try removing or renaming ~/.emacs.d, the existence of which might be
> > > fooling emacs into *not* searching for ~/.config/emacs.  For reference,
> > > see:
> > >
> > >     https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Find-Init.html
> > >
> >
> > Currently, the ~/.emacs.d directory is used by emacs to store many of
> > the user data as shown below:
> >
> > $ ls ~/.emacs.d/
> > auto-save-list  cnfonts  eaf  elpa  init.el  network-security.data  rime  url
> >
> > So, if I removed/deleted this folder, then where should I put the
> > emacs' user data?
>
> Presumably, ~/.config/emacs is an alternative to ~/.emacs.d, so you
> would move all of that user data from ~/.emacs.d to ~/.config/emacs.
> The net result would have been the same if you had renamed ~/.emacs.d to
> ~/.config/emacs instead of separating the init file from the other user
> data.
>

The above operation described by you doesn't conform to the XDG base
directory specification given on its official website
<https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html>.
To be more specific, see the following exceptions from there for more
info:

Environment variables

$XDG_DATA_HOME defines the base directory relative to which user
specific data files should be stored. If $XDG_DATA_HOME is either not
set or empty, a default equal to $HOME/.local/share should be used.

$XDG_CONFIG_HOME defines the base directory relative to which user
specific configuration files should be stored. If $XDG_CONFIG_HOME is
either not set or empty, a default equal to $HOME/.config should be
used.


So, if we want to let emacs fully comply with this specification, then
the data should be put under $XDG_DATA_HOME while the config files
should be put under $XDG_CONFIG_HOME. So, the conclusion should be
drawn as follows:

 Emacs data, say, user installed packages  ------>  $HOME/.local/share/emacs
 Emacs config files, say, init.el  ------> $HOME/.config/emacs

Regards
-- 
Assoc. Prof. Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
Theory and Simulation of Materials
Hebei Polytechnic Vocational and Technical University
NO. 552 North Gangtie Road, Xingtai, China

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE]

On 2020-12-13 at 23:12:39 +0800,
Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 10:53 PM <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com> wrote:

> > Presumably, ~/.config/emacs is an alternative to ~/.emacs.d, so you
> > would move all of that user data from ~/.emacs.d to ~/.config/emacs.
> > The net result would have been the same if you had renamed
> > ~/.emacs.d to ~/.config/emacs instead of separating the init file
> > from the other user data.
> 
> The above operation described by you doesn't conform to the XDG base
> directory specification given on its official website
> <https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html>.
> To be more specific, see the following exceptions from there for more
> info:
> 
> Environment variables
> 
> $XDG_DATA_HOME defines the base directory relative to which user
> specific data files should be stored. If $XDG_DATA_HOME is either not
> set or empty, a default equal to $HOME/.local/share should be used.
> 
> $XDG_CONFIG_HOME defines the base directory relative to which user
> specific configuration files should be stored. If $XDG_CONFIG_HOME is
> either not set or empty, a default equal to $HOME/.config should be
> used.
> 
> So, if we want to let emacs fully comply with this specification, then
> the data should be put under $XDG_DATA_HOME while the config files
> should be put under $XDG_CONFIG_HOME. So, the conclusion should be
> drawn as follows:
> 
>  Emacs data, say, user installed packages  ------>  $HOME/.local/share/emacs
>  Emacs config files, say, init.el  ------> $HOME/.config/emacs

That analysis seems sound, but I'm not up on XDG standards or the latest
emacs thought processes enough to be sure (and Lisp furhter blurs the
line between data and config, not to mention code).  Perhaps the emacs
maintainer(s) can clarify on this thread, or perhaps you could file a
bug report.

Eli?  Stefan?

FWIW, I'm sticking to my very old ~/.emacs.el file and a few explicitly
loaded files under ~/.emacs.d.

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:58:54 -0600
> From: 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com
> 
> That analysis seems sound, but I'm not up on XDG standards or the latest
> emacs thought processes enough to be sure (and Lisp furhter blurs the
> line between data and config, not to mention code).  Perhaps the emacs
> maintainer(s) can clarify on this thread, or perhaps you could file a
> bug report.
> 
> Eli?  Stefan?

It's all in the manual and in NEWS.  There's nothing more to it.  If
something in what the manual says is unclear, please ask more specific
questions about the unclear parts.

Re: ~/.emacs vs ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Hongyi Zhao wrote:

> As far as the initialization file is concerned, which is more
> preferable,~/.emacs or ~/.emacs.d/init.el?

Hm... preferable in what sense?

.emacs will be evaluated when Emacs initializes upon normal
invocation but as far as the configuration goes, it doesn't
matter where you put it or in what way you evaluate it.

If you want to have it somewhere else, for practical or modular
reasons (e.g., one file for each thing you configure/extend),
in .emacs you can just `push' the path(s) where it/they are to
`load-path' and then use `load-file' to get it in effect.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal