From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rustom Mody Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: how to change C-x prefix to C-k in a clean way? Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:19:02 +0530 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2beb47be456046588265e X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1237535386 3153 80.91.229.12 (20 Mar 2009 07:49:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 07:49:46 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 20 08:51:03 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LkZVI-000239-N3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:51:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44896 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LkZTw-00012r-0i for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:49:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LkZTZ-000111-QO for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:49:09 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LkZTU-00010H-VK for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:49:09 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=37901 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LkZTU-000105-R9 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:49:04 -0400 Original-Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.241]:50600) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LkZTU-0007AO-7h for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:49:04 -0400 Original-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id f25so1157214rvb.6 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:49:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=ZUMbnwtgw9i7bBgWiSRVJtVVo3/VYNEYi9by/lJ8Uos=; b=DLVM4l3nBqIJVAO65hUFmMCTSh5d2vSOC/0OD0qDdC2myfPG3MJiffho3nlxS6+1Y1 CrpS3K4ipPhpQLTHIFD8vxHV0X0wLxs0VQcM8rdpgHhH/e+AC97nNsYNwJOBU1yECwPT 0pxnoHUqBpuqvAs73TWt1cmxeKidb7ZE014gU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=w1bpzmiI+zGoWwsw9pbWfWWTCn7wAx3A8X8AF1b8dCr7OiKt2IFghGsULRtuM1l3Fq hSw628YSNN7fugCBFv4WmP4TKfcmydoHSz8ovvJWkNHaemRHal+Heq4zp/xH886FRSlq kDfvacZOLs61azxdf39GYSRXqIRAzgHyoo1GE= Original-Received: by 10.141.19.16 with SMTP id w16mr1228856rvi.66.1237535342453; Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:49:02 -0700 (PDT) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:63118 Archived-At: --000e0cd2beb47be456046588265e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mar 20, 9:07 am, Xah Lee wrote: > On Mar 16, 6:17 am, rustom wrote: > Hi Rustom, > > Some sort of shorthand writing can indeed improve one's typing of > natural language by a lot. I haven't studied any particular shorthand > system, my impression is that there are quite a few. > > ( indeed, Wikipedia lists about 40.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ > Shorthand ) > > shorthand systems are designed for professional dictation clerk or > similar. Shorthand system has little offer specific to emacs for > improving speed of writing natural lang or programing. (abbrev system > and templates (e.g. yasnippet) are much more useful) > > also, there are several chording systems or chording keyboards over > the past decades. In general, they are not practical. Some of them are > envisioned to replace the standard keyboard, but they have their own > problems. The first adoption problem is that chording system requires > learning to use, while keyboard doesn't. For vast majority of > computer users, hunt & peck works well because they don't have a need > to type much. Note that Wikipedia also has a few articles on the > various chording keyboards.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ > Chorded_keyboard > > from a research point of view, one could imagine a input device that's > radical and so well designed, so that it takes ergonomics from the > ground up, where the hardware naturally fits the shape and movement of > human hand, and uses perhaps chording chord chording. And perhaps > comes with a fancy integrated pointing device. And perhaps uses a > software layout (of the chording) based on a shorthand systems, and > for various programing languages too... often, radical general > solution as innovation without a immediate, concrete, specific problem > it solves, is not likely to become adopted anytime soon. > > (PS thanks Rustom for the email notice. Sorry for the delay in > replying. Also, thanks Alan Mackenzie et al. I haven't yet studied > your advices in detail. ) > > Xah Hi Xah. I guess my own post was a bit rambling so my point was a bit lost and some other stuff got emphasised. I was saying more or less what you are saying -- viz chording systems are (probably) fantastic research ideas but too impractical. yasnippet (templates in general) are useful for programming languages. And for plain text abbrevs are probably best. My suggestion is for an *alphabetic shorthand system* viz abbrevs. Well here is a small suggestion (request?) for you Youve done a lot of analysis of emacs keystrokes and you have a huge site of stuff. Would you try running the McIllroy classic on your site? http://www.unix.com/unix-dummies-questions-answers/42789-searching-displaying-most-commonly-used-words.html This will do for words the same analysis that you've already done for keystrokes. I think -- just guesses -- you will get figures like this: Top frequency 24 words (or 26 since I expect 'I' and 'a' to occur there) -- 30 % Next 100 words -- 35 % Next 500 words -- 30 % Assuming you do get something like this, setting up 125 abbrevs and taking say 2 weeks to learn them, will it not make your typing almost halved. [I am assuming that the average length of even common English words is about 3.5 chars whereas the average length of these abbrevs will be about 1.5 (1.25 if you take weighted averages, 1.1 if you add common phrases). On Mar 16, 10:18 am, "B. T. Raven" wrote: > Your modest proposal is brilliant in some as yet to be specified way. Yes it is brilliant. (I of course did not invent it, its from http://www.freewebs.com/cassyjanek ) My 'specified way' of analyzing this brilliance is thusly: Compression (as in gzip LZ jpeg etc) has some key ideas a. Huffmann coding b. Length encoding c. Right amt of lossiness This lady (without evidently any background in CS!! ) has taken these ideas and made a system that migrates these ideas from the digital 2-it (aka bit) world to the 26-it biological box atop our shoulders. Now what I am trying to do is burn some new firmware (and sweating with the heat!!) --000e0cd2beb47be456046588265e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mar 20, 9:07 am, Xah Lee <xa= h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 16, 6:17 am, rustom <rustompm...@gmail.com> wrote:
= > Hi Rustom,
>
> Some sort of shorthand writing can indeed improve one's t= yping of
> natural language by a lot. I haven't studied any parti= cular shorthand
> system, my impression is that there are quite a few= .
>
> ( indeed, Wikipedia lists about 40.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Shorthand )
&g= t;
> shorthand systems are designed for professional dictation clerk= or
> similar. Shorthand system has little offer specific to emacs for
&g= t; improving speed of writing natural lang or programing. (abbrev system> and templates (e.g. yasnippet) are much more useful)
>
> also, there are several chording systems or chording keyboards over> the past decades. In general, they are not practical. Some of them ar= e
> envisioned to replace the standard keyboard, but they have their = own
> problems. The first adoption problem is that chording system requires<= br>> learning to use, while keyboard doesn't.=A0 For vast majority o= f
> computer users, hunt & peck works well because they don't= have a need
> to type much. Note that Wikipedia also has a few articles on the
&g= t; various chording keyboards.htt= p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Chorded_keyboard
>
> fr= om a research point of view, one could imagine a input device that's > radical and so well designed, so that it takes ergonomics from the
= > ground up, where the hardware naturally fits the shape and movement of=
> human hand, and uses perhaps chording chord chording. And perhaps<= br> > comes with a fancy integrated pointing device. And perhaps uses a
&= gt; software layout (of the chording) based on a shorthand systems, and
= > for various programing languages too... often, radical general
> solution as innovation without a immediate, concrete, specific problem=
> it solves, is not likely to become adopted anytime soon.
> <= br>> (PS thanks Rustom for the email notice. Sorry for the delay in
> replying.=A0 Also, thanks Alan Mackenzie et al. I haven't yet stud= ied
> your advices in detail.=A0 )
>
>=A0 Xah
=A0

Hi Xah.
I guess my own post was a bit rambling so my point was a bit = lost and some other stuff got emphasised.
I was saying more or less what= you are saying -- viz
chording systems are (probably) fantastic researc= h ideas but too impractical.

yasnippet (templates in general) are useful for programming languages.

And for plain text abbrevs are probably best.

My suggestion is for an *alphabetic shorthand system*=A0 viz abbrevs.

Well here is a small suggestion (request?) for you
Youve done a lot o= f analysis of emacs keystrokes and you have a huge site of stuff.
Would = you try running the McIllroy classic on your site?
http://www.unix.com/unix-dummies-questions-answers/= 42789-searching-displaying-most-commonly-used-words.html
This will do for words the same analysis that you've already done for k= eystrokes.

I think -- just guesses -- you will get figures like this:

Top frequency 24 words (or 26 since I expect 'I' and 'a'= to occur there) -- 30 %
Next 100 words=A0=A0=A0 -- 35 %
Next 500 wor= ds -- 30 %

Assuming you do get something like this, setting up 125 abbrevs and taki= ng say 2 weeks to learn them, will it not make your typing almost halved. [= I am assuming that the average length of even common English words is about= 3.5 chars whereas the average length of these abbrevs will be about 1.5 (1= .25 if you take weighted averages, 1.1 if you add common phrases).

On Mar 16, 10:18 am, "B. T. Raven" <ni...@nihilo.net> wrote:
> Your modest proposal i= s brilliant in some as yet to be specified way.

Yes it is brilliant. (I of course did not invent it, its from=A0=A0 http://www.freewebs.com/cassyjan= ek )
My 'specified way' of analyzing this brilliance is thus= ly:

Compression (as in gzip LZ jpeg etc) has some key ideas
a. Huffmann c= oding
b. Length encoding
c. Right amt of lossiness

This lady (without evidently any background in CS!! ) has taken these id= eas and made a system that migrates these ideas from the digital 2-it (aka = bit) world to the 26-it biological box atop our shoulders.

Now what I am trying to do is burn some new firmware (and sweating with = the heat!!)

--000e0cd2beb47be456046588265e--