From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christian Schlauer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Calc: `*' binds more strongly than `/' Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:27:14 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87y7kvxj6p.fsf@arcor.de> <87odlrkn74.fsf@truman.edu> <87tzvhcul9.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <863b2z2mma.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <87abx6u905.fsf@truman.edu> <873b2xz6t9.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> <87y7kpax45.fsf@wigwam.brockman.se> Reply-To: cs-usenet@arcor.de NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177237962 18746 80.91.229.12 (22 Apr 2007 10:32:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:32:42 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 22 12:32:36 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HfZMy-00052l-4T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:32:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZSE-0007Wc-Qr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:38:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZPv-0005yf-C0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:35:40 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZPs-0005uw-25 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:35:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZPq-0005u8-7H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:35:34 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HfZKY-0002nh-Gf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:30:06 -0400 Original-Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZKU-0008B0-5W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:30:02 +0200 Original-Received: from finn.gmane.org ([80.91.229.4]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:30:02 +0200 Original-Received: from cs-usenet by finn.gmane.org with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:30:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 52 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: finn.gmane.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:69783 Archived-At: Daniel Brockman writes: > Christian Schlauer writes: > >> But then I say that writing A/B*C and interpreting it like (A/B)*C >> saves me the trouble of typing in parentheses > > Not really. You could just type that as A*C/B. Yes. But I don't have to think about such things /at all/ in /all other programs/ I use, because they use the common syntax, and I don't see the benefit of Emacs having its own rules. > The point is that the reduced precedence of `/' allows you > to always put all numerator factors before the slash and all > denominator factors after it, which is often very convenient. Your convenient behaviour does neither work in Excel, OpenOffice.org spreadsheet, or MATLAB, nor on a TI, HP or Casio pocket calculator. What do you win with that convenient behaviour compared to that it confuses people that also use other, more common spreadsheets (or MATLAB) besides Emacs? /They/ can get wrong results. You safe some keystrokes. > (You could make the same argument for `+' and `-' --- i.e., > that `A-B+C' should mean `A-(B+C)'. However, this is not as > natural because one usually does not think of sums as units. > Writing `A-B-C' is completely natural, but `A/B/C' is not > completely natural --- in fact, it is a little confusing.) Here I don't follow you -- except for that you can write `A/B/C' in Calc or any other software, and you will get the same result *everywhere*, even in Calc. (But I wouldn't write it that way either.) > I think this is good notation, but I also think that it > would be a good idea to warn the user and make sure that > they know what they are doing when entering such things. I fully agree with Stefan: ,---- | In any case, I still haven't heard any concrete reason why the | non-standard behavior of calc is preferred to the more common | behavior. Neither is perfect because there is no such thing, but one | of them is sufficiently surprising to deserve big warnings in the | Calc doc and the Org doc, whereas the other would be "business as | usual". `---- Regards, Christian