How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[christopherbalz]

I'm running the latest speedbar, as required by the Java Dev
Environment for Emacs, so I need (per the instructions) to delete the
stock speedbar.  But, as with many users, I am working in an
environment where I do not have root access.  So I can't delete the old
speedbar.

Is there a way to get rid of the stock speedbar without having to copy
over the entire install dir on the system to my local account and
redirect Emacs on startup completely to that?  For example, is there a
way to manipulate the load path to avoid just the old speedbar, and
leave the other loading unchanged?

Thank you in advance for your ideas on this.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[Robert Thorpe]

christopherbalz wrote:
> I'm running the latest speedbar, as required by the Java Dev
> Environment for Emacs, so I need (per the instructions) to delete the
> stock speedbar.  But, as with many users, I am working in an
> environment where I do not have root access.  So I can't delete the old
> speedbar.
>
> Is there a way to get rid of the stock speedbar without having to copy
> over the entire install dir on the system to my local account and
> redirect Emacs on startup completely to that?  For example, is there a
> way to manipulate the load path to avoid just the old speedbar, and
> leave the other loading unchanged?

You should probably be able to:-
* Put new speedbar in your own dir
* Unload the old speedbar, see here:-
http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/support/emacs/elisp-help/elisp-manref/elisp_15.html#SEC202
* Load the new speedbar

It will probably slow Emacs load time unfortunately.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[Ken Goldman]

christopherbalz wrote:
> I'm running the latest speedbar, as required by the Java Dev
> Environment for Emacs, so I need (per the instructions) to delete the
> stock speedbar.  But, as with many users, I am working in an
> environment where I do not have root access.  So I can't delete the old
> speedbar.
> 
> Is there a way to get rid of the stock speedbar without having to copy
> over the entire install dir on the system to my local account and
> redirect Emacs on startup completely to that?  For example, is there a
> way to manipulate the load path to avoid just the old speedbar, and
> leave the other loading unchanged?

I'm using emacs 21.3 on a managed system.

I find that if I put my local .el file directory in load-path ahead of 
the system version, it uses mine.  So I don't delete old ones.  I just 
install new ones in my local .el directory.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[Robert Thorpe]

Ken Goldman wrote:
> christopherbalz wrote:
> > I'm running the latest speedbar, as required by the Java Dev
> > Environment for Emacs, so I need (per the instructions) to delete the
> > stock speedbar.  But, as with many users, I am working in an
> > environment where I do not have root access.  So I can't delete the old
> > speedbar.
> >
> > Is there a way to get rid of the stock speedbar without having to copy
> > over the entire install dir on the system to my local account and
> > redirect Emacs on startup completely to that?  For example, is there a
> > way to manipulate the load path to avoid just the old speedbar, and
> > leave the other loading unchanged?
>
> I'm using emacs 21.3 on a managed system.
>
> I find that if I put my local .el file directory in load-path ahead of
> the system version, it uses mine.  So I don't delete old ones.  I just
> install new ones in my local .el directory.

This mostly works, there are some gotchas though.  Defvar does not
change the value of variables that are already defined.   So if an old
version of Foo.el sets up variables in a particular way, then when you
load the new version those variables will be set the same way they were
in the old version.  Using "unload" too is safer.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[Kevin Rodgers]

Robert Thorpe wrote:
> Ken Goldman wrote:
>> I find that if I put my local .el file directory in load-path ahead of
>> the system version, it uses mine.  So I don't delete old ones.  I just
>> install new ones in my local .el directory.
> 
> This mostly works, there are some gotchas though.  Defvar does not
> change the value of variables that are already defined.   So if an old
> version of Foo.el sets up variables in a particular way, then when you
> load the new version those variables will be set the same way they were
> in the old version.  Using "unload" too is safer.

That problem only occurs when the library in question is dumped in to
the emacs executable (see loadup.el).

P.S.  Don't forget to byte-compile your local .el files.

-- 
Kevin

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[christopherbalz]

No luck, having tried all kindly mentioned approaches.

Unloading the speedbar:
  (unload-feature 'speedbar)
in some places in my .emacs file does not work since the speedbar is
not loaded.

If I try this code right before '(load-file (expand-file-name
"~/emacs/site/cedet/common/cedet.elc"))':

(load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/sb-image.el")) ;;
Override stock, system speedbar.
(load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/dframe.elc")) ;;
Override stock, system speedbar.
(load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/speedbar.elc")) ;;
Override stock, system speedbar.

I then do get the updated speedbar (1.0pre3), but also continue to get
the annoyingly ever-repeated error message:
  idle error: "#<buffer .emacs> - Unmatched Text during Lexical
Analysis"
or (for another example):
  idle error: "#<buffer Packager.java> - Unmatched Text during Lexical
Analysis" [2 times]

that is said to be due to the speedbar version conflict I am trying to
fix in the first place.

Other things tried:  I tried  or right after '(require 'jde)':

(unload-feature (speedbar 'force))

I do get the latest speedbar (1.0pre3), but then I get this error:
   unload-feature: nil is not a currently loaded feature

At least, I have the updated speedbar now.

However, that the annoyingly ever-repeated error message sometimes
interrupts viewing the message line, and suggests that the problem is
not really solved.

Any ideas?




Robert Thorpe wrote:
> christopherbalz wrote:
> > I'm running the latest speedbar, as required by the Java Dev
> > Environment for Emacs, so I need (per the instructions) to delete the
> > stock speedbar.  But, as with many users, I am working in an
> > environment where I do not have root access.  So I can't delete the old
> > speedbar.
> >
> > Is there a way to get rid of the stock speedbar without having to copy
> > over the entire install dir on the system to my local account and
> > redirect Emacs on startup completely to that?  For example, is there a
> > way to manipulate the load path to avoid just the old speedbar, and
> > leave the other loading unchanged?
>
> You should probably be able to:-
> * Put new speedbar in your own dir
> * Unload the old speedbar, see here:-
> http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/support/emacs/elisp-help/elisp-manref/elisp_15.html#SEC202
> * Load the new speedbar
> 
> It will probably slow Emacs load time unfortunately.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[Tim X]

"christopherbalz" <ChristopherMBalz@StanfordAlumni.org> writes:

> I'm running the latest speedbar, as required by the Java Dev
> Environment for Emacs, so I need (per the instructions) to delete the
> stock speedbar.  But, as with many users, I am working in an
> environment where I do not have root access.  So I can't delete the old
> speedbar.
>
> Is there a way to get rid of the stock speedbar without having to copy
> over the entire install dir on the system to my local account and
> redirect Emacs on startup completely to that?  For example, is there a
> way to manipulate the load path to avoid just the old speedbar, and
> leave the other loading unchanged?
>

What about ensuring your locally installed speedbar code is found in
the load-path before the system wide one? I think this should result
in your version shadowing the system installed one.

Tim


-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[Robert Thorpe]

christopherbalz wrote:
> No luck, having tried all kindly mentioned approaches.
>
> Unloading the speedbar:
>   (unload-feature 'speedbar)
> in some places in my .emacs file does not work since the speedbar is
> not loaded.

Good point.  I forgot how Speedbar works.  The one function M-x
speedbar is autoloaded.
In this case you don't need to do any unloading, just to load the mode.

> If I try this code right before '(load-file (expand-file-name
> "~/emacs/site/cedet/common/cedet.elc"))':
>
> (load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/sb-image.el")) ;;
> Override stock, system speedbar.
> (load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/dframe.elc")) ;;
> Override stock, system speedbar.
> (load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/speedbar.elc")) ;;
> Override stock, system speedbar.
>

What you are doing here is loading things from a location that is not
on the load-path.  It is better to append to the load-path.

(setq load-path (append load-path '("~/emacs/site/speedbar/")))
(load "dframe")
(load "sb-image")
(load "speedbar")

I think loading speedbar should load the others anyway, with this
setup.

> I then do get the updated speedbar (1.0pre3), but also continue to get
> the annoyingly ever-repeated error message:
>   idle error: "#<buffer .emacs> - Unmatched Text during Lexical
> Analysis"
> or (for another example):
>   idle error: "#<buffer Packager.java> - Unmatched Text during Lexical
> Analysis" [2 times]
>
> that is said to be due to the speedbar version conflict I am trying to
> fix in the first place.

That looks like a compability problem, probably between the Speedbar
version you're using and the version of Emacs. Apart from that I don't
know.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[Robert Thorpe]

Kevin Rodgers wrote:
> Robert Thorpe wrote:
> > Ken Goldman wrote:
> >> I find that if I put my local .el file directory in load-path ahead of
> >> the system version, it uses mine.  So I don't delete old ones.  I just
> >> install new ones in my local .el directory.
> >
> > This mostly works, there are some gotchas though.  Defvar does not
> > change the value of variables that are already defined.   So if an old
> > version of Foo.el sets up variables in a particular way, then when you
> > load the new version those variables will be set the same way they were
> > in the old version.  Using "unload" too is safer.
>
> That problem only occurs when the library in question is dumped in to
> the emacs executable (see loadup.el).

Mostly that's true, but it's not really specific to things that are
dumped.

The issue applies to all variables/fns initialized by Emacs, but not to
things that are autoloaded.  Often, the set of all variables
initialized is the same as the set of what is dumped into the Emacs
executable.

But, lets say your .emacs file loads foo.el, or triggers the loading of
foo.el by using an autoloaded function or causing an autoloaded
function to be loaded indirectly through some other function.  If this
happens and you replace foo.el with another library later then the
issue may occur.

None of this is a big problem of-course.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[Robert Thorpe]

Kevin Rodgers wrote:
> Robert Thorpe wrote:
> > Ken Goldman wrote:
> >> I find that if I put my local .el file directory in load-path ahead of
> >> the system version, it uses mine.  So I don't delete old ones.  I just
> >> install new ones in my local .el directory.
> >
> > This mostly works, there are some gotchas though.  Defvar does not
> > change the value of variables that are already defined.   So if an old
> > version of Foo.el sets up variables in a particular way, then when you
> > load the new version those variables will be set the same way they were
> > in the old version.  Using "unload" too is safer.
>
> That problem only occurs when the library in question is dumped in to
> the emacs executable (see loadup.el).

Mostly that's true, but it's not really specific to things that are
dumped.

The issue applies to all variables/fns initialized by Emacs, but not to
things that are autoloaded.  Often, the set of all variables
initialized is the same as the set of what is dumped into the Emacs
executable.

But, lets say your .emacs file loads foo.el, or triggers the loading of
foo.el by using an autoloaded function or causing an autoloaded
function to be loaded indirectly through some other function.  If this
happens and you replace foo.el with another library later then the
issue may occur.

None of this is a big problem of-course.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[Robert Thorpe]

Kevin Rodgers wrote:
> Robert Thorpe wrote:
> > Ken Goldman wrote:
> >> I find that if I put my local .el file directory in load-path ahead of
> >> the system version, it uses mine.  So I don't delete old ones.  I just
> >> install new ones in my local .el directory.
> >
> > This mostly works, there are some gotchas though.  Defvar does not
> > change the value of variables that are already defined.   So if an old
> > version of Foo.el sets up variables in a particular way, then when you
> > load the new version those variables will be set the same way they were
> > in the old version.  Using "unload" too is safer.
>
> That problem only occurs when the library in question is dumped in to
> the emacs executable (see loadup.el).

Mostly that's true, but it's not really specific to things that are
dumped.

The issue applies to all variables/fns initialized by Emacs, but not to
things that are autoloaded.  Often, the set of all variables
initialized is the same as the set of what is dumped into the Emacs
executable.

But, lets say your .emacs file loads foo.el, or triggers the loading of
foo.el by using an autoloaded function or causing an autoloaded
function to be loaded indirectly through some other function.  If this
happens and you replace foo.el with another library later then the
issue may occur.

None of this is a big problem of-course.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[christopherbalz]

I've got this Emacs:

  GNU Emacs 21.3.1 (i386-redhat-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll
bars) of 2005-08-08 on tweety.build.redhat.com

  and Speedbar 1.0pre3

I notice from my Ubuntu system at home that 21.4 or so is the latest
shipping version.

Interestingly, on re-start of Emacs and just a few operations,
including using the speedbar with jde and pulling up javadoc in a web
browser from c-c c-v c-w at point, there is no error.  In any case, the
error is more of an inconvenience than anything more.


Robert Thorpe wrote:
> christopherbalz wrote:
> > No luck, having tried all kindly mentioned approaches.
> >
> > Unloading the speedbar:
> >   (unload-feature 'speedbar)
> > in some places in my .emacs file does not work since the speedbar is
> > not loaded.
>
> Good point.  I forgot how Speedbar works.  The one function M-x
> speedbar is autoloaded.
> In this case you don't need to do any unloading, just to load the mode.
>
> > If I try this code right before '(load-file (expand-file-name
> > "~/emacs/site/cedet/common/cedet.elc"))':
> >
> > (load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/sb-image.el")) ;;
> > Override stock, system speedbar.
> > (load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/dframe.elc")) ;;
> > Override stock, system speedbar.
> > (load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/speedbar.elc")) ;;
> > Override stock, system speedbar.
> >
>
> What you are doing here is loading things from a location that is not
> on the load-path.  It is better to append to the load-path.
>
> (setq load-path (append load-path '("~/emacs/site/speedbar/")))
> (load "dframe")
> (load "sb-image")
> (load "speedbar")
>
> I think loading speedbar should load the others anyway, with this
> setup.
>
> > I then do get the updated speedbar (1.0pre3), but also continue to get
> > the annoyingly ever-repeated error message:
> >   idle error: "#<buffer .emacs> - Unmatched Text during Lexical
> > Analysis"
> > or (for another example):
> >   idle error: "#<buffer Packager.java> - Unmatched Text during Lexical
> > Analysis" [2 times]
> >
> > that is said to be due to the speedbar version conflict I am trying to
> > fix in the first place.
>
> That looks like a compability problem, probably between the Speedbar
> version you're using and the version of Emacs. Apart from that I don't
> know.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[Robert Thorpe]

christopherbalz wrote:
> I've got this Emacs:
>
>   GNU Emacs 21.3.1 (i386-redhat-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll
> bars) of 2005-08-08 on tweety.build.redhat.com
>
>   and Speedbar 1.0pre3
>
> I notice from my Ubuntu system at home that 21.4 or so is the latest
> shipping version.

It's very little different from 21.3.  All it does is fix a remote hole
in one of the ancillary programs.  The new-new version is coming soon
though, it's in pretest as far as I know.

> Interestingly, on re-start of Emacs and just a few operations,
> including using the speedbar with jde and pulling up javadoc in a web
> browser from c-c c-v c-w at point, there is no error.

Without more information it's hard to see that problem.  It could be
that the path to speedbar needs to be in load-path.

>  In any case, the
> error is more of an inconvenience than anything more.

I see.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[christopherbalz]

Previously, I had restarted Emacs many times and always got the same
error.  There were no changes to my configuration on the last restart.
But there was one significant difference -- the whole machine on which
Emacs was running was restarted.

I forgot to mention that in my most recent post.  And I used the JDE
all yesterday, with the speedbar, and saw  no error.  I don't know
exactly what had changed from before that made the difference, but it
looks like your solution worked.  Thanks very much.

Here is what I have in my .emacs file regarding loading the speedbar,
which apparently works well:

(add-to-list 'load-path (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/jde/lisp"))
(add-to-list 'load-path (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/cedet/common"))
(load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/sb-image.el")) ;;
Override stock, system speedbar.
(load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/dframe.elc")) ;;
Override stock, system speedbar.
(load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/speedbar/speedbar.elc")) ;;
Override stock, system speedbar.
(add-to-list 'load-path (expand-file-name "~/emacs/site/elib"))
;; Emacs Code Browser is an optional-element to the JDEE Suite:
(add-to-list 'load-path "~/emacs/site/ecb")


Robert Thorpe wrote:
> christopherbalz wrote:
> > I've got this Emacs:
> >
> >   GNU Emacs 21.3.1 (i386-redhat-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll
> > bars) of 2005-08-08 on tweety.build.redhat.com
> >
> >   and Speedbar 1.0pre3
> >
> > I notice from my Ubuntu system at home that 21.4 or so is the latest
> > shipping version.
>
> It's very little different from 21.3.  All it does is fix a remote hole
> in one of the ancillary programs.  The new-new version is coming soon
> though, it's in pretest as far as I know.
>
> > Interestingly, on re-start of Emacs and just a few operations,
> > including using the speedbar with jde and pulling up javadoc in a web
> > browser from c-c c-v c-w at point, there is no error.
>
> Without more information it's hard to see that problem.  It could be
> that the path to speedbar needs to be in load-path.
>
> >  In any case, the
> > error is more of an inconvenience than anything more.
> 
> I see.

Re: How to get rid of stock (standard) speedbar if do not have root access?

[christopherbalz]

Eventually, the approach you suggested worked.  I don't know why it
didn't work before -- see my post just previous in time to this one.
Thank you for the help!

   - Chris

Tim X wrote:
> "christopherbalz" <ChristopherMBalz@StanfordAlumni.org> writes:
>
> > I'm running the latest speedbar, as required by the Java Dev
> > Environment for Emacs, so I need (per the instructions) to delete the
> > stock speedbar.  But, as with many users, I am working in an
> > environment where I do not have root access.  So I can't delete the old
> > speedbar.
> >
> > Is there a way to get rid of the stock speedbar without having to copy
> > over the entire install dir on the system to my local account and
> > redirect Emacs on startup completely to that?  For example, is there a
> > way to manipulate the load path to avoid just the old speedbar, and
> > leave the other loading unchanged?
> >
>
> What about ensuring your locally installed speedbar code is found in
> the load-path before the system wide one? I think this should result
> in your version shadowing the system installed one.
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> -- 
> tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au