From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master 78fc49407b8 1/3: Improve filling of ChangeLog entries Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 22:39:44 +0200 Message-ID: References: <540cc339-b7d4-4c1a-b084-c7f739ad4947@gutov.dev> <8734ue327d.fsf@gmail.com> <87a5omf1e8.fsf@yahoo.com> <878r45px71.fsf@yahoo.com> <87y1c5ob4h.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33491"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cc: Po Lu , =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 31 21:40:52 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rVHO6-0008LY-Mg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 21:40:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVHNE-0002Yu-Rv; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 15:39:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVHN9-0002YS-Sr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 15:39:52 -0500 Original-Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.27]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVHN8-00027V-2w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 15:39:51 -0500 Original-Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7DD75C0071; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 15:39:48 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 31 Jan 2024 15:39:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1706733588; x=1706819988; bh=gxqNI54Dj/5laJbJbXhDcwpWcbmF0nZiypMvpnL834w=; b= Td5O2h/77YhNzPEvMJSaQ4ewgz5OpSP/0Nd7ZhX7VtNTvCRDNAdu0sjQ/A5g3dvo d+T2JYTsJsW4AN5GpBbGjexyWPkyunI/sEnSAubYrxfqjQ845YFZKjYELl88jMCO ff7tUts5WxWhxDBsEp3OGOeoB1+2y3CIAJJICIWJpYCbLy3AEYhR3KfiEnp8Kzfl nfyED9IGDuN/VJtKVE9k67iOXsoD/mlDkupT0004Uc0XdXciGW05gWGf7+s9+M8z A5m2vRxtR8hGrARMHlKANd/vTF8Shazo5paQVJ0klJ0GhKUDv06oqF1AWoRJw9xT 84Mw4eVKNpuAyG2BzdOl3w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1706733588; x= 1706819988; bh=gxqNI54Dj/5laJbJbXhDcwpWcbmF0nZiypMvpnL834w=; b=I JPeiyYuTKt0WYLzo/jirCMAHRhrslzUgPnWFQUQ01fps4YfVLz2L1yJb69I71crE Ljg7VHdd/jCfh5rnFuUB98guj3SrWExKOp9PRKO23wHwH1j89s9cQT6Hp7VtZEtc KWXsFSb/k5s6Py8xfOuPPLNCwcUOzYSvL7wginwb853+e+uFobDGjetko9fGfB4O INNYz8IjAr8o3CqaBMF+lAom5gJODqLX7iMLERXhlB6fb9t3Y36V475E2/pGgeIl g+ENhTsxIlWjUFscdfZ6wi7RLxA8GFq0lYNlcM/00+jl9UgpCljzUePZEJjrYlgQ 8wmlUlWjnHdRZbGn1i4vg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrfedtledgudefjecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthejredttddvjeenucfhrhhomhepffhm ihhtrhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeetudeljeegheetgfehgeejkeeuhedvveeikeeufedtvddtveefhfdvveeg udejheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe gumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 15:39:46 -0500 (EST) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.27; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=out3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -26 X-Spam_score: -2.7 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_SBL_A=0.1 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315684 Archived-At: On 31/01/2024 20:45, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Hello, Dmitry. > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 19:05:57 +0200, Dmitry Gutov wrote: >> On 31/01/2024 17:32, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 17:15:41 +0200, Dmitry Gutov wrote: >>>> On 31/01/2024 16:01, Po Lu wrote: >>>>> See any file in CC Mode, > >>>> No shortage of maintainers, you say? > >>> None. > >> One cannot name a package with bus factor of 1 and say it has plenty of >> people willing to maintain it. > > What's a "bus factor" in this context? The smallest number of developers who would need to mysteriously disappear, for it to become a problem for the project. > It would appear that one person, > me, is indeed enough to maintain it. The rate of bugs reported for it > has sunk to near zero, possibly because of the release of the tree sitter > C Mode in Emacs 29.1. That's good. >> I don't mean to criticize your work (not knowing the exact tradeoffs), >> but it's plainly a bad example. > > Bad example of what? Of a body of Lisp code maintained by different developers, who all accepted (and possibly chosen) its current style, thereby justifying it as something usable as a standard, rather than only a personal preference. > [ .... ] > >>> After several days of struggling with named-let, cl-labels, and friends, >>> I vote for the plain Lisp, even if it does need more lines to express. >>> It is simply less work. > >> I've never used named-let, and very rarely cl-labels. > > I've never used either, but still need to debug them. :-( edebug usually helps, no? >> The latter is a very simple idea, though: create a bunch of local >> function definitions. Like nested functions in Python, for example. > > It's a complicated macro. Why is it needed at all? Is there anything > using it that couldn't be conveniently written in plain Lisp? Having local variable bindings with lambda values is a little messier in comparison. For example, the use of cl-labels in 'comp-collect-rev-post-order' seems easy to read and thus justified. Also, it allows having mutually recursive functions, which won't be an option in sequential bindings (but I don't see this property taken advantage of much).