From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: describe-mode "some-mode"? Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 19:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <87bnrc1lkz.fsf@yun.yagibdah.de> <988b6e41-62ed-4d33-abf1-804ddcedef59@default> <87egw7z8ca.fsf@yun.yagibdah.de> <87fvgmk5ux.fsf@debian.uxu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1408848405 3473 80.91.229.3 (24 Aug 2014 02:46:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 02:46:45 +0000 (UTC) To: Emanuel Berg , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 24 04:46:38 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XLNpG-0001qJ-DY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Aug 2014 04:46:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42821 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XLNpF-0008EY-Qy for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Aug 2014 22:46:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60604) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XLNow-0008ER-07 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Aug 2014 22:46:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XLNoo-0006ml-6Y for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Aug 2014 22:46:17 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:20077) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XLNoo-0006mc-0E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Aug 2014 22:46:10 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s7O2k7ij009449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Aug 2014 02:46:09 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s7O2k59b011021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 24 Aug 2014 02:46:05 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s7O2k5CB020981; Sun, 24 Aug 2014 02:46:05 GMT In-Reply-To: <87fvgmk5ux.fsf@debian.uxu> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:99381 Archived-At: > > `help-documentation' is defined in `help-fns+.el' > > (http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-en/download/help-fns%2b.el). > > It is like the vanilla function `documentation', but > > it uses `help-substitute-command-keys' so that keys > > mentioned in the help become links to their doc. >=20 > Why isn't such a helpful feature itself vanilla? There are lots of helpful features that are not in vanilla Emacs. The choice is up to the Emacs maintainers. (And one person's helpful feature is can be another's PITA.) > > Using only vanilla functions:... >=20 > And make one of those vanilla as well! > And then - as it seems only the lowercase m is employed > by the help system, for describing the current buffer > modes: (global-set-key "\C-hM" 'my-describe-mode) >=20 > But, for message-mode, those don't give identical > output for me with respect to the minor modes. No, they don't - see my first message. (It has nothing to do with `message-mode'.) The first one does not try to include minor-mode info. That's easily added if you want it. The point was to show that all of this is already available, even if not in the form of a ready-made command. The function `documentation' that you were looking for, is used here, for instance. As is typically the case, the elements of what is needed to cobble together such a "feature" (command) are in the Emacs code. E.g., just look at the definition of `describe-mode'. It often happens that a given user wants a simple command to do XYZ, while other users don't feel such a need. And even the same user might feel like s?he wants an XYZ command/feature now, especially when new to Emacs (witness the many "How do I do this `vi' thing in Emacs?"), and s?he might find later that s?he really does not really need/want it. How someone interacts with Emacs changes, with time and with changes to the code s?he uses. Many users end up making heavy use of this or that 3rd-party library, which changes how they use Emacs, sometimes radically. And core Emacs features change over time too - usually for the better. Some features that were practically unusable in the past (or were at least not used much) have become things that people use all of the time. And sometimes all it took was a few tweaks to the UI to make them more convenient or more powerful. That is really the power of Emacs: that every Joe & Jane ends up fiddling with things to slightly improve them. This often happens because someone has an itch to scratch. But Emacs itself deserves a lot of the credit, because it is an environment conducive to customization, er, improvement. > Perhaps Gnus enables something in a hook that is not part of > plain message-mode. So you should be careful separating > when you want to describe a mode in general, and the > mode specifically in effect for the current buffer! No, see above. It has nothing to do with Gnus. The first command did not bother to include minor-mode info.