From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 01:06:31 +0300 Message-ID: References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <874ko8wu8k.fsf@blind.guru> <83eencmj3l.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21848"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Mario Lang Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 09 00:17:23 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFlvX-0005ZW-9A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 00:17:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60856 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFlvW-0005oZ-BI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 18:17:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41334) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFll8-0005EI-3t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 18:06:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]:35413) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFll5-000378-Qe; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 18:06:37 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id w11so512494lfn.2; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 15:06:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NFpHEkM5oEZXV5uBZoWL+PAMHT9xxjMGGfl56qCKfik=; b=RBTa6RTRwKTE2RIZzMfmRZagHJmxVdA52JiXUpfeMD74y48hbr07bjpSKlUivSmetJ wFcjskgmm81h6dwkdyroyKniV1dOPk2WFu2KYNegAQHEjBFsb3IZSng1PSk2PpP9NYvV IyPYwqrSnMvX+oJxbqUwMCd1e1udkk7X56vTF9ePyL7QnwHplOQ0EMGK8t0gICKz8bkc tW53Yxhrcb4sXW7IABBdWjGar1oudBMvTaHsfh1gDbdRY/8y/ZSrsxxhAip//jXsp8HV blXNFoPtTV5dh5HPPOvO4Rz3b477kqqPZ9ailu3oT5Cd5SAFw4/9Eha/XKCQJB9ggehq PqWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=NFpHEkM5oEZXV5uBZoWL+PAMHT9xxjMGGfl56qCKfik=; b=dlCjSUtcT09gGP5SRyWO7dnCZzf35xGI+KmxTlCU9SGKRLminpC2DkS19YynBcYK1N HHMFaDW5Qnbb25b44XptYAR9BZEm2xJiOna3tp5BpkGAGVK/WST9k0myIxYdsQtN0mJY 9efL/3gd/YOVi4SxgeLneXz+NNsD9EuF2AJB4+IkNsgK5lvVGjf0jMuoWIH+Je+2ZdN5 Z4S6MZaiqtNUG5ByoTz+LGRbWUMTtQggfxGaexJkxo8yd5A5dwsrGf4VAC0FYaoy60QZ St4Zuou4mmxGIOIfnKZVWBysQh3O/6HSbvpodbVAxngo4rhNBhg0l9bLxPtuUh/UcLSm fnVA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Amk8cOIZf1AKqb7KLWyx7tpMslYuGPS3l78jhTVCk0DeOhFhG 2LwqAzFngph7+u2bd5i10tSA3qS8Uo8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwoGUB1zp7URkyVfmjZtNikvVCX+VBLVbNRcWabXLNJRyKQb9cvxLafBUA9ThV5v8mOtcCblA== X-Received: by 2002:a19:df53:: with SMTP id q19mr466461lfj.119.1599602793287; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 15:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.104] ([94.229.108.16]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id u9sm253580ljh.20.2020.09.08.15.06.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 08 Sep 2020 15:06:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83eencmj3l.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12b; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.626, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254825 Archived-At: On 08.09.2020 17:35, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > See, that's exactly the crux of the difficulty in these matters: ask N > people about changing defaults to M options, and you get the number of > different "please do this and this, but not that" opinions almost as > large as the number of permutations. Honestly, I don't think that enabling (or not) display-line-numbers-mode is going to be a big deal either way: it's easy to enable or disable, and it has little far-reaching consequences otherwise. Certainly fewer consequences that changing the default theme to dark, or enabling cua-mode by default, or even incorporating which-key. Likewise for ibuffer vs list-buffers (though it'll be a bit harder to change back). > So either (1) we go for the lowest common denominator of features that > most people agree to (which can easily be an empty set); or (2) we > come up with groups of optional features which are turned on and off > together. Orthogonally, we could decide on a method for changing defaults which doesn't involve the impossible task of making everybody happy but still makes some effort to change with the times.