From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Bozhidar Batsov" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Clojure Mode in Emacs - an exercise in counter-productive communication Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2023 10:48:54 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <835y4ucrz3.fsf@gnu.org> <831qficgin.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttsehwab.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87fs3x6ge7.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8cthmzl.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5u56atj.fsf@gmail.com> <875y4t69vq.fsf@gmail.com> <90ac490a-1d95-4704-b4f8-908b16861aec@app.fastmail.com> <87fs3v44wa.fsf@gmail.com> <14c0b906-966e-4090-93b4-eba75fbe0521@app.fastmail.com> <87bkei524b.fsf@gmail.com> <8734zu5oq9.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=398f70e7432845d49c51306fef921fd1 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36925"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-701-g9b2f44d3ee-fm-20230823.001-g9b2f44d3 Cc: "Danny Freeman" , "Eli Zaretskii" , "Dmitry Gutov" , "Richard Stallman" , "Emacs Devel" To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 04 10:50:23 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qd5Hp-0009Hv-Ge for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Mon, 4 Sep 2023 04:49:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface In-Reply-To: <8734zu5oq9.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.29; envelope-from=bozhidar@batsov.dev; helo=out5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310057 Archived-At: --398f70e7432845d49c51306fef921fd1 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay. I tried to conclude our conversation on good terms but clearly you= believe I'm not doing something right by you. I don't have to tolerate = your bulshit and snarky remarks. =20 Keep being a jerk if you insist to. And keep believing you know all the = answers. That aggressive attitude is the main reason why so many people = steer clear of emacs-devel. That's the last message exchange I'll have w= ith you on the subject.=20 On Mon, Sep 4, 2023, at 10:25 AM, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote: > "Bozhidar Batsov" writes: >=20 > > What hostile manner? Do we need permission from you to start discu= ssing > > Clojure editing facilities here > > > > You don't need my permission to do anything. But in my book it's good > > manners to try to get people involved in a conversation that might > > benefit from their presence. >=20 > All I did when I started this thread was grab this message from Philip > Kaludercic: >=20 > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2023-08/msg00968.html >=20 > I hit "reply to all" and changed the subject line for clarity. By the= n, > you had already made very clear to Eli and others that your Clojure > modes would not come to GNU Emacs. Your opening "I've said a million > times" email didn't exactly sound exactly very chummy either: >=20 > I've been maintaining almost all of the Clojure dev tooling for > Emacs for over a decade, so I do believe that by now I know what I= 'm > doing and how I want to do things. I've said a million times by now > that I don't want contributors to have to deal with copyright > agreements. >=20 > In: >=20 > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2023-08/msg01127.html >=20 > So excuse me for not issuing a special scented invitation to His > Highness, but I did believe he was above Being Bothered with GNU > trivialities. >=20 > > One day perhaps you'll learn that things=20 >=20 > "good manners"?? "one day perhaps you'll learn"??? You can't make this > stuff up. Send me your youtube video on good manners, too? >=20 > Let's be clear: your help -- would there have been any -- would of > course have been welcomed. But I didn't see it as essential: none of > your code was involved I was explicitly starting from scratch. And to > be frank you didn't even pop in my head when starting the thread, so I > did was "reply to all". Anyone can read these emails, after all. You > did finally find the thread. But then all you did was try to > intimidate, scaremonger and dissuade. >=20 > Given that you're now backtracking, err... reviewing your position, we > might have your Clojure modes in GNU in the end. So I guess something > decent might come of those 2 lines of code after all. >=20 > Jo=C3=A3o >=20 --398f70e7432845d49c51306fef921fd1 Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay. I tried t= o conclude our conversation on good terms but clearly you believe I'm no= t doing something right by you. I don't have to tolerate your bulshit an= d snarky remarks.  

Keep being a = jerk if you insist to. And keep believing you know all the answers. That= aggressive attitude is the main reason why so many people steer clear o= f emacs-devel. That's the last message exchange I'll have with you on th= e subject. 

On Mon, Sep 4, 2023, at 10:25 = AM, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote:
"Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:

>  What hostile manner?  Do we need permission from you = to start discussing
>  Clojure editing facilities = here
>
> You don't need my permission = to do anything. But in my book it's good
> manners to t= ry to get people involved in a conversation that might
>= ; benefit from their presence.

All I did wh= en I started this thread was grab this message from Philip
Kaludercic:

  https://l= ists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2023-08/msg00968.html

I hit "reply to all" and changed the subject line f= or clarity.  By then,
you had already made very clear= to Eli and others that your Clojure
modes would not come = to GNU Emacs.  Your opening "I've said a million
time= s" email didn't exactly sound exactly very chummy either:
=
    I've been maintaining almost all of th= e Clojure dev tooling for
    Emacs for ove= r a decade, so I do believe that by now I know what I'm
&n= bsp;   doing and how I want to do things. I've said a million = times by now
    that I don't want contribu= tors to have to deal with copyright
    agr= eements.

In:


So excuse me for not i= ssuing a special scented invitation to His
Highness, but I= did believe he was above Being Bothered with GNU
triviali= ties.

> One day perhaps you'll learn tha= t things 

"good manners"?? "one day pe= rhaps you'll learn"??? You can't make this
stuff up. = Send me your youtube video on good manners, too?

Let's be clear: your help -- would there have been any -- would o= f
course have been welcomed.  But I didn't see it as = essential: none of
your code was involved I was explicitly= starting from scratch.  And to
be frank you didn't e= ven pop in my head when starting the thread, so I
did was = "reply to all".  Anyone can read these emails, after all.  You=
did finally find the thread.  But then all you did w= as try to
intimidate, scaremonger and dissuade.
<= div>
Given that you're now backtracking, err... reviewing = your position, we
might have your Clojure modes in GNU in = the end.  So I guess something
decent might come of t= hose 2 lines of code after all.

Jo=C3=A3o

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