From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Herring, Davis" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making 'eq' == 'eql' in bignum branch Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 06:14:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0F8F6E54-176C-48EE-9E7C-7CAC424D0D55@raeburn.org> <352c998a64c646b983a131039e9c732b@lanl.gov> <20180831195942.GA4898@ACM> <0fdc8b299a614b07b4aa437993a976bd@lanl.gov>, <20180902105755.GA7967@ACM> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536041600 16528 195.159.176.226 (4 Sep 2018 06:13:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 06:13:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "cpitclaudel@gmail.com" , Pip Cet , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 04 08:13:16 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fx4aR-0004Az-Gg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 08:13:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48168 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fx4cW-000887-AR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 02:15:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60009) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fx4cQ-00087w-K2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 02:15:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fx4cL-0006IR-U4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 02:15:18 -0400 Original-Received: from proofpoint8.lanl.gov ([204.121.3.47]:53964) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fx4cL-0006FI-KU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 02:15:13 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (proofpoint8.lanl.gov [127.0.0.1]) by proofpoint8.lanl.gov (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w846DRCK030064; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 00:14:07 -0600 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lanl.gov; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=lanl; bh=nS7OCpyvt9gKZ8RhwXyWd791Jvg+K4tprdfjNFIGoIA=; b=Zqe43J8WfUKTjnw7i3AonRaEhZckvMQZNWvJia3UtTfyO4UDnHEvry7Ht+VDTRbP3Wjy 9OlxrAnGusSrRiWTrkrLlSOshcJBYrPdSjnGgXb+xqHGNZyndZRJEmqNh8YpV46NNcwi +soS4pvYbVJHNaxIt9a2QziolHR3uJXdQzf9vBgAWGrjptwLwspuYxciifaGMbmWqBqg LJubrhyKbLwD0i9t4/Qyt2uaSMRFEfPjuO05mjhgxhoG9rd0a309HKWoAz2Nz7FOBuyn AKlVv7RJjr44R4ZJT+QIjBrbpFKKkSF2UEktG43u1YKYW668WfJxvTjcWwAfkDilb4Js nw== Original-Received: from mailrelay1.lanl.gov (mailrelay1.lanl.gov [128.165.4.101]) by proofpoint8.lanl.gov with ESMTP id 2m7qj191st-1; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 00:14:06 -0600 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79E913E9DE3; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 00:14:06 -0600 (MDT) X-NIE-2-Virus-Scanner: amavisd-new at mailrelay1.lanl.gov Original-Received: from EXG16-P-MBX06.win.lanl.gov (exg16-p-mbx06.win.lanl.gov [128.165.106.186]) by mailrelay1.lanl.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFAFE13E9DDF; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 00:14:06 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from EXG16-P-MBX03.win.lanl.gov (128.165.106.183) by EXG16-P-MBX06.win.lanl.gov (128.165.106.186) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1531.3; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 00:14:06 -0600 Original-Received: from EXG16-P-MBX03.win.lanl.gov ([fe80::7c23:7a54:2544:a5c4]) by EXG16-P-MBX03.win.lanl.gov ([fe80::7c23:7a54:2544:a5c4%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1531.004; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 00:14:06 -0600 Thread-Topic: Making 'eq' == 'eql' in bignum branch Thread-Index: AQHUJe8LD6NzhSV8GEm1qwYJaFkj56SksmolgAFAbQCAIfRMJoAA0Z4AgAAIcQCAAAPVgIAAIEK+gAADi2yAAM3mKIAH+FMAgAEBu7WAAHsOgIABayq8gABucgCAAFZngP//6vOlgADD7ACAAFMVAP//5p7EgASenAD//+YSCQBU5xCAAEv3FK4= In-Reply-To: <20180902105755.GA7967@ACM> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [128.165.106.203] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-09-04_03:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=832 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1809040065 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 204.121.3.47 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229222 Archived-At: > Because this is an emacs groups, and we have to use "number" in that > context. I think we've finally found the root of our miscommunication: I took the di= scussion to be about numbers in general, from which we might draw useful co= nclusions for Emacs, rather than to (already) be about Emacs' model for the= real numbers. >> What is the list of such axioms? >=20 > Obviously different for different sorts of number. Certainly: that was the entire point of my most recent message -- and of my= first in this thread. > For the real numbers, [...] ...And conversely I was never asking for the axioms for real numbers, altho= ugh it's good to remember those every once in a while (I usually think only= of Cauchy completeness, but that allows interlopers like the Levi-Civita f= ield). > Note that these two "infinities" are being proposed as members of > (Emacs's) real numbers, so it is reasonable to focus on real numbers. They're not being proposed -- they're already there (if not in C, then at l= east on all machines in common use), since IEEE 754 is in fact based on the= (affinely) extended reals. It's begging the question to call Emacs' numbe= rs real and then object to the inclusion of infinities based on that, but y= ou're right that it's reasonable to _focus_ on the cofinite real subset whe= n trying to engineer a usable system we can reason about. Davis=