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From: "Herring, Davis" <herring@lanl.gov>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: "cpitclaudel@gmail.com" <cpitclaudel@gmail.com>,
	Pip Cet <pipcet@gmail.com>,
	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Making 'eq' == 'eql' in bignum branch
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 06:14:06 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ea95d240bb494ba996949bcc6d87e99a@lanl.gov> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180902105755.GA7967@ACM>

> Because this is an emacs groups, and we have to use "number" in that
> context.

I think we've finally found the root of our miscommunication: I took the discussion to be about numbers in general, from which we might draw useful conclusions for Emacs, rather than to (already) be about Emacs' model for the real numbers.

>> What is the list of such axioms?
> 
> Obviously different for different sorts of number.

Certainly: that was the entire point of my most recent message -- and of my first in this thread.

> For the real numbers, [...]

...And conversely I was never asking for the axioms for real numbers, although it's good to remember those every once in a while (I usually think only of Cauchy completeness, but that allows interlopers like the Levi-Civita field).

> Note that these two "infinities" are being proposed as members of
> (Emacs's) real numbers, so it is reasonable to focus on real numbers.

They're not being proposed -- they're already there (if not in C, then at least on all machines in common use), since IEEE 754 is in fact based on the (affinely) extended reals.  It's begging the question to call Emacs' numbers real and then object to the inclusion of infinities based on that, but you're right that it's reasonable to _focus_ on the cofinite real subset when trying to engineer a usable system we can reason about.

Davis


  reply	other threads:[~2018-09-04  6:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 281+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-04-21 14:15 Using the GNU GMP Library for Bignums in Emacs Siraphob (Ben) Phipathananunth
2018-04-21 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-04-21 15:01   ` Siraphob (Ben) Phipathananunth
2018-04-21 15:23     ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-21 15:36       ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-04-21 15:40       ` Siraphob (Ben) Phipathananunth
2018-04-21 15:54         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-04-21 16:08         ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-26  3:17           ` Tom Tromey
2018-04-26  3:33             ` Stefan Monnier
2018-04-27 15:56               ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-27 16:08                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-04-21 22:42         ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-22  2:48           ` dancol
2018-04-22 13:00             ` Philipp Stephani
2018-04-22 17:43               ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-22 18:04                 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-04-22 18:34                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-04-23  3:39               ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-22  8:00           ` Siraphob (Ben) Phipathananunth
2018-04-22  9:06             ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-23  5:19               ` Helmut Eller
2018-04-23  8:39                 ` Andreas Schwab
2018-04-23 14:36                   ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-23 19:22                     ` Helmut Eller
2018-04-23 20:26                       ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-23  3:36             ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-22 12:43       ` Helmut Eller
2018-04-22 17:47         ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-23  3:39           ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-23  4:41             ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-24  2:54               ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-24  4:35                 ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-24  5:45                   ` Helmut Eller
2018-06-03 23:44                     ` Jefferson Carpenter
2018-04-25  1:05                   ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-25  1:19                     ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-25 22:40                       ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-25 23:29                         ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-30  3:07                           ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-30  5:00                             ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2018-04-30 12:34                               ` Stefan Monnier
2018-05-01  3:01                               ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-30  7:04                             ` Paul Eggert
2018-05-01  3:01                               ` Richard Stallman
2018-05-01 21:45                                 ` Paul Eggert
2018-05-03  3:34                                   ` Richard Stallman
2018-05-03  5:53                                     ` Paul Eggert
2018-05-03  6:26                                       ` Helmut Eller
2018-05-03 17:49                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-05-03 18:26                                           ` Paul Eggert
2018-05-04  4:26                                             ` Richard Stallman
2018-05-05  5:03                                               ` Ken Raeburn
2018-05-06  3:12                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2018-05-07 17:24                                                   ` Ken Raeburn
2018-05-08  1:55                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2018-05-07 18:40                                               ` Andreas Schwab
2018-05-03 18:51                                           ` Helmut Eller
     [not found]                                             ` <83sh78o6af.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-05-03 20:30                                               ` Helmut Eller
2018-05-03 21:48                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2018-05-04  4:22                                       ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-24  2:54               ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-23  3:03         ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-05 21:29           ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-05 21:53             ` John Wiegley
2018-07-06 20:43             ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-06 21:00             ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-07  4:27               ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-07  4:53                 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-07  6:20                   ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-07  6:38                     ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-09  5:37                       ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-09 16:22                         ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-09 22:56                           ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-09 23:02                             ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-09 23:13                               ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-10  4:01                             ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-10 13:46                             ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-08 15:59                   ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-09  5:43                     ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-10  4:10                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-07 23:43               ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-08  4:58                 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-08 22:55                   ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-08  5:01                 ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-08 22:55                   ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-09  5:39                     ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-09 20:15               ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-09 23:25                 ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-10  3:41                   ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-10  5:32                     ` Helmut Eller
2018-07-10 13:54                       ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-10 16:01                     ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-10 16:48                       ` Helmut Eller
2018-07-10 17:45                         ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-10 19:14                           ` Helmut Eller
2018-07-11  1:31                             ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-11  5:59                               ` Helmut Eller
2018-07-11 14:23                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-11  2:04                             ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-11  2:36                               ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-10 20:33                       ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-11  1:52                         ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-11  2:35                           ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-11  3:16                             ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-11  3:30                               ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-11  3:42                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-11 22:48                           ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-12  4:51                             ` Tom Tromey
2018-07-12 23:35                               ` Richard Stallman
2018-07-15 15:02                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-18 10:20                                   ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-18 13:17                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-27 21:14                                       ` Making 'eq' == 'eql' in bignum branch Paul Eggert
2018-07-28 14:26                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-29  3:34                                           ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-29  4:09                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-29 14:35                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-30 17:07                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-30 18:49                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-30 20:10                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-30 21:58                                                   ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-31  2:38                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-31  7:10                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-31 16:12                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-31 22:44                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-01  5:51                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-01  6:43                                                               ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-01  8:53                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-03  7:40                                                                   ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-03  7:55                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-10 11:12                                                                     ` Pip Cet
2018-08-10 15:15                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-10 15:43                                                                         ` Pip Cet
2018-08-10 15:55                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-10 16:52                                                                           ` John Yates
2018-08-10 19:45                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-10 20:48                                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-10  7:05                                                             ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-08-10  8:02                                                               ` Paul Eggert
     [not found]                                                     ` <<83d0v4p1si.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-07-31 15:08                                                       ` Drew Adams
2018-07-31 16:24                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-31 22:21                                                         ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-20  0:04                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-20  1:33                                               ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-20 15:20                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-20  6:35                                               ` Pip Cet
2018-08-20  7:05                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-20  7:19                                                   ` Pip Cet
2018-08-20  7:27                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-20  8:49                                                       ` Andy Moreton
2018-08-20 16:03                                                         ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-20 16:41                                                           ` Andy Moreton
2018-08-20 16:51                                                             ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-20 16:58                                                               ` Andy Moreton
2018-08-20 19:50                                                             ` Pip Cet
2018-08-20 21:54                                                               ` Andy Moreton
2018-08-21  3:38                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2018-08-20 17:23                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-20 17:35                                                             ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-20 15:13                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-20 15:26                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-20 16:19                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-21 15:01                                                           ` Robert Pluim
2018-08-21 19:09                                                             ` Robert Pluim
2018-08-21 19:35                                                               ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-22  8:26                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-08-22 13:22                                                                   ` Herring, Davis
2018-08-22 13:28                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-08-22 13:55                                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-22 20:01                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-23  8:13                                                               ` Robert Pluim
2018-08-23 13:45                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-23 14:48                                                                   ` Robert Pluim
2018-08-23 18:43                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-24  9:51                                                                   ` Robert Pluim
2018-08-25 17:59                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-20 16:01                                                         ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-20 16:26                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-21  3:37                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2018-08-20 15:12                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-20 15:26                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-08-20 16:18                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-22 19:59                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-21  3:38                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2018-08-25 23:27                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-26 12:45                                                             ` Tramp and fixnum (was: Making 'eq' == 'eql' in bignum branch) Michael Albinus
2018-08-26 15:34                                                               ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-26 16:06                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-26 16:44                                                                   ` Tramp and fixnum Michael Albinus
2018-08-28  4:47                                                                   ` Tramp and fixnum (was: Making 'eq' == 'eql' in bignum branch) Paul Eggert
2018-08-26 16:49                                                                 ` Tramp and fixnum Michael Albinus
2018-08-28  4:48                                                                   ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-28 11:50                                                                     ` Michael Albinus
2018-08-28 14:33                                                                       ` Michael Albinus
2018-08-28 15:18                                                                         ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-29  8:09                                                                           ` Michael Albinus
2018-08-26 16:34                                                             ` Making 'eq' == 'eql' in bignum branch Tom Tromey
2018-08-26 16:59                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-26 20:19                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-08-26 20:31                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-27  2:31                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-27  4:45                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-27  5:10                                                                   ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-27 14:59                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-27 15:18                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-27 15:37                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-27 15:47                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-27 18:57                                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-26 20:45                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2018-08-26 22:10                                                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-08-27  0:23                                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-27 22:50                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2018-08-28  1:44                                                                   ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-28 14:12                                                                   ` Tom Tromey
2018-08-28 21:30                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2018-08-28 22:03                                                                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-08-29 22:10                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2018-08-28 18:03                                                                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-08-29  3:53                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-29 18:49                                                                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-08-28  1:33                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2018-08-28  2:25                                                                   ` Pip Cet
2018-08-28  3:45                                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-28  7:34                                                                     ` Ken Raeburn
2018-08-28  9:11                                                                       ` Helmut Eller
2018-08-28 12:15                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-28 18:00                                                                         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-08-28 22:57                                                                           ` Pip Cet
2018-08-29  3:42                                                                             ` Herring, Davis
2018-08-29  5:40                                                                               ` Helmut Eller
2018-08-29 13:15                                                                               ` Pip Cet
2018-08-31 19:59                                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-08-31 20:30                                                                                 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-08-31 21:58                                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-01  1:26                                                                                   ` Herring, Davis
2018-08-31 21:15                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-01  1:05                                                                                 ` Herring, Davis
2018-09-02 10:57                                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-09-04  6:14                                                                                     ` Herring, Davis [this message]
2018-09-01  4:47                                                                                 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-08-29  3:22                                                                           ` Elias Mårtenson
2018-08-29 18:56                                                                             ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-08-29 19:30                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-31  0:09                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-09-01  2:32                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2018-08-31 16:41                                                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-28 21:25                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2018-08-30 19:13                                                                 ` Johan Bockgård
2018-08-30 21:14                                                                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-08-30 21:35                                                                     ` Tom Tromey
2018-08-30 21:56                                                                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-08-20 15:37                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2018-08-20 16:23                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-20 16:12                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-20 17:21                                                         ` Helmut Eller
2018-08-20 14:02                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-07-18 15:55                                     ` Using the GNU GMP Library for Bignums in Emacs Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-18 21:42                                       ` Paul Eggert
2018-07-22 12:06                                     ` Ken Raeburn
2018-07-22 16:44                                       ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-01  7:57                                         ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-01 11:59                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-08-02  2:06                                             ` Paul Eggert
2018-08-02 13:49                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-07-22 19:57                                       ` Achim Gratz
2018-04-21 16:46 ` Markus Triska
2018-04-21 17:09   ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-04-21 17:27     ` Markus Triska
2018-04-21 18:37   ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-21 22:42     ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-22  2:43       ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-04-23  3:34         ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-23  4:21           ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-23 13:13             ` Stefan Monnier
2018-04-24  2:54             ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-24  4:34               ` Paul Eggert
2018-04-25  1:05                 ` Richard Stallman
2018-04-23 15:18           ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-04-24 18:56 ` Emanuele Santoro
2018-04-26 15:52 ` Glenn Morris

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