From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Maria Shinoto Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Japanese input in Linux environment (fcitx-mozc) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 10:35:55 +0900 Message-ID: References: <834lvt9mxw.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1496799406 14028 195.159.176.226 (7 Jun 2017 01:36:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 01:36:46 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 07 03:36:42 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dIPtq-0003CU-78 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 03:36:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40834 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIPtq-0005C0-Mf for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 21:36:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50452) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIPtN-0005Bb-1K for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 21:36:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIPtJ-000887-2G for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 21:36:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.133]:58759) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dIPtI-00087B-Ms for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 21:36:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Marias-iMac.local ([211.19.250.68]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue002 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MbGLz-1dbJgf2JXH-00KdRN for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 03:36:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: de-DE X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:GbOR6GtQzBnVguLdY2DN6gqbXusoqcJzx5tM8/2wjTKGuXnctWK tDwFzmnczR3oBFyGB2fJZBixWBXBDUYIN29UW9hfKRUf7I6HOkZ8JlCiIE5y839u8t/77Gu qjYIbownKg1nL3jeBbgfNHJL7+z2p9/s4Xh3sZaxxPd9+OKJU+laek9Wx3udmFb76uVXLBv gU7mab5bny7L8WI9IPzeA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:yR8ukI0K+Tw=:KxtPOn/S+R5QSiu2QhUlnk 2eFIma5b8w32lSz6x7LuRqgif5vSUGCM3RkqrAv/g0I9M1EdZXW32uCxueoHhdZ4qMNKj8MmY vranN3Icc/uXYloXNnHzD3hpyx71fO1TbR/W6hIg6zo5coInJhaIxS0PD2n5g7Jpm7wSoB8oX OwAWIzwp2m65IlK1PI3O+NwaNCz/nnPvdV0EyH03UOVcBrCO/xaoAcHXhZ7pvUz08QSpJq6EX THbhXzi0vbvticufxp6X9/CIF1i7HCLAepfTy+e37ajZ4IS1nJtUOPM7vFhUBX+9zvaO1EwxQ NMuI2HIsytfbhBEs010OpljL55fq2PGAj8F4ZnRaEFFHg/qHbk9QPgs7tWNffKslZYWhNi7Ud T6EzpPXergNqTldricfW1KrFsR8MRxdxUdE76YhOVFHnv3MVhh/0YVtVMPHLzrnnsanz5Fxsb OmosVQsI6NqD1m/XbckRndojeOOLNZ1d/omFaRXHF+0v+jv6D+eC/AgjT7/NCzwhoUN7VyOYW UuvLtW8PRQRQD+G0/jbD2c/73mjHuEw+hNCL87BR/fnceZsdXHZHVu1UWsHazg00fHNUgqTNZ MfUVOR2ey3QODaZgZmGpt0BGGMes4xHr+GCTcH0MEb3uSeL0JVLGjql56AnyvCNIOFM+PC6mW nrHlmTQ/t+trMhPeMRioT4fhUHtn7QYQ0tdNE4l+N19Xmv5pDpo3tsUdV3h0U65f/hOScd2TV 2k86/RYNbW4g5i91 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 212.227.126.133 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:113382 Archived-At: Emanuel, Thanks for the input. I already wrote Jean-Christophe personally, because it seems that we have a lot in common that is not a real issue for most of the people. But since you took so much effort into the matter, which I really appreciate, some comments from my experience: I write Japanese, English and German without looking on the keyboard with quite some speed. Using compose keys is inacceptable in that way. Instead, I change keyboard layout any time I change the language. This is a matter of two or one keyboard strokes, depending on the physical keyboard layout. I mainly use Japanese keyboards with Japanese and US layout (physically) and type on -- software-wise -- Japanese (Roman letters changing on the fly to Japanese), English, German, Korean and Chinese keyboard layouts. Since I can type blind, I am not distracted by the different writings on the physical keyboard keys. I would not leave this technique behind, since it evolved during my life, together with computers getting smarter, and it is the most comfortable and the fastest way. I need the speed when writing down text! So I am now looking along the route of the LANG variable; seems to be the most promising way. But for today, I will not have time to check this -- at the moment I am writing on my Mac :) Best, Maria Am 07.06.17 um 09:43 schrieb Emanuel Berg: > Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > >> I have exactly the same issue. I write >> French, English and Japanese (albeit on a Mac >> system) and the difficulty to shift from an >> input system to the other is what keeps me on >> the Mac. > > French at least shouldn't be a problem on Linux > or Emacs. They have a few goofy chars just like > most languages. For example my Swedish have > Å, Ä and Ö. I have that as a compose key. > That way, I can have the programmer's > Anglo-American keyboard layout constantly, even > when I write in Swedish - i.e., the Swedish > Ö key on the keyboard still being ; - and > whenever I need the Ö I do > > Compose " o > > Since getting that up, I've set up many other > goofy chars, some of which I believe are > present in the French language (I post this > last in this post) - I've done this mostly to > be able to write names correctly, e.g. > Éric de Bisschop. > > It is *much better* to have the compose key for > the goofy chars than to switch the entire > keyboard layout! > > Facts for fans: The only national > translation project of the man pages that > had a huge body translated was the French. > By now, French tech people are probably > fluent enough in English tho. > > How it works for Russian and Japanese I have > have no idea. The Russian alphabet is > different from the latin but it is still an > alphabet. So it should be straightforward. > Tho the "compose method" doesn't work because > the entire alphabet is just "goofy chars"! > So then you have no choice but to switch > between keyboard layouts. > > You could put the Russian L at the same spot as > the latin L but it would be an uphill battle > and complete consistency impossible as there is > no equivalent for every char/sound. But perhaps > switching layouts between Russian and > Anglo-American isn't that big a deal as the > entire layout is switched, and because the > change is total, there is actually > not that much confusion? > > With Japanese, is there an alphabet as well or > is it pictorial only? Or parallel systems? > How does a Japanese typewrite look? > > Oh, the compose key in a Linux VT > > http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/remap.inc > > ## Æ > compose 'A' 'E' to U+00C6 # Æ > compose 'a' 'e' to U+00E6 # æ > > ## Å > compose '0' 'A' to U+00C5 # Å - ring > compose '0' 'a' to U+00E5 # å > compose 'o' 'A' to U+00C5 # Å > compose 'o' 'a' to U+00E5 # å > > ## Ä > compose '"' 'A' to U+00C4 # Ä - diaeresis > compose '"' 'a' to U+00E4 # ä > > ## Ö > compose '"' 'O' to U+00D6 # Ö - diaeresis > compose '"' 'o' to U+00F6 # ö > > ## U > compose '/' 'U' to U+00DA # Ú - acute > compose '/' 'u' to U+00FA # ú > compose '"' 'U' to U+00DC # Ü - diaeresis > compose '"' 'u' to U+00FC # ü > > ## more As > compose '/' 'A' to U+00C1 # Á - acute > compose '/' 'a' to U+00E1 # á > compose '\\' 'A' to U+00C0 # À - grave > compose '\\' 'a' to U+00E0 # à > > ## C > compose '/' 'C' to U+0106 # Ć - acute > compose '/' 'c' to U+0107 # ć > compose '.' 'C' to U+00C7 # Ç - cedilla > compose '.' 'c' to U+00E7 # ç > > ## E > compose '/' 'e' to U+00E9 # é - acute > compose '/' 'E' to U+00C9 # É > compose '\\' 'E' to U+00C8 # È - grave > compose '\\' 'e' to U+00E8 # è > > ## I > ## note: Linux VT + I/i + grave DNC > compose '/' 'I' to U+00CD # Í - acute > compose '/' 'i' to U+00ED # í > > ## O > compose '/' 'O' to U+00D3 # Ó - acute > compose '/' 'o' to U+00F3 # ó > compose '-' 'O' to U+00D8 # Ø - stroke (old name: slash) > compose '-' 'o' to U+00F8 # ø > > ## N > compose '~' 'N' to U+00D1 # Ñ - tilde > compose '~' 'n' to U+00F1 # ñ >