From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#40671: [DOC] modify literal objects Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 02:36:58 +0300 Message-ID: References: <4b8b7e98-029e-58ac-59ff-6cd984b7eb85@yandex.ru> <530d3597-aaaa-f019-bafa-8229d13e7248@yandex.ru> <60b88f52-c50d-c57a-9ce5-495e6157d36e@cs.ucla.edu> <0721d8c1-4fe3-335c-7dbc-171487cb648a@yandex.ru> <6d1015da-0dc1-376c-f84b-5e3ee3149213@cs.ucla.edu> <286139d2-bbe1-2d5a-bec1-f781666376f1@yandex.ru> <10b89e6f-6fa6-f855-65b6-3361a74472d3@cs.ucla.edu> <8542efe2-c4a6-1da5-2513-7ffcaa6c4ec9@yandex.ru> <293d0eab-4617-08fe-aafa-d6841a750af0@cs.ucla.edu> <4085994e-f42d-b90f-9c86-ad42689bbff2@yandex.ru> <9cfc3b63-7df6-145a-8a78-e3320b6d3861@cs.ucla.edu> <72399223-0ab5-dbe4-5027-d929450a4df0@yandex.ru> <1a2d0454-baa4-9831-0e2c-4411eda1c2fe@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="5005"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , ke.vigouroux@laposte.net, 40671@debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 29 01:38:13 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jTZno-0001DM-KF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:38:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43392 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTZnn-0005Ep-Jj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:38:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33704) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTZnf-0005Eh-8Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:38:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTZne-0003iL-QO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:38:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:58565) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTZne-0003iF-EF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:38:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTZne-00006V-BX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:38:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40671 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 40671-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40671.1588117029329 (code B ref 40671); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:38:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 40671) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2020 23:37:09 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41878 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTZmn-00005F-CD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:37:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-f45.google.com ([209.85.221.45]:37342) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTZml-0008WN-8m for 40671@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:37:07 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-f45.google.com with SMTP id k1so343093wrx.4 for <40671@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:37:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=muYXkay3g+sIvGtJDFocsjc3qi9d+auSzmdR8CayQAM=; b=tt3hkcRPL2rsIkMu5vsmwM56/mAideXiwrmtIZ17aY+nPFKsVI90h7lAuA3tdNGuOJ yUNl/Kaqq6Xhg7siIDGajTA6r0gX8p3L3I8aMQ+5hryfp0Abum+IL7jepxaxBhjFeIJO P/miD4UGdXAKIRhi8ohjliTntiFLr4xGapQYLV456DK8GxhpPWCGfqw8jppRFP4zSqTi 3noMqI36U1VU5r6h3g4nJRabJ9rY6a31MOhUIcMFkwUsVQ8uvzHGOapDlp9qA9rY/X5I 4ZgengHBwbEGIl00uNe3zW1NqJwvohrrppT0JYq8izl2zuQlPTM/gF7uemjrZptbx2gM aQ5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=muYXkay3g+sIvGtJDFocsjc3qi9d+auSzmdR8CayQAM=; b=C9Y3tYoj3bx/E1WLmy40c3WALEL2vOVw8k+WOHt+ZkBqsZkZLmn33iRvWoq/xtzvHi wKyTLXd5bUNrCDe/kJo+60IuXT5rnxhikTTFsJLCYnb8J03GEwJsPjaq5IHuQy2ksTk+ X/GnP7U6CTVic4D7ncXFalULpr3q9yvAL/fruK3rjvAuFV+u870+D9nsgmT1PMlDobl8 DJk3QIXWFOo7yLFvphF4QF90YlvOkUeeSB4ePrXhBfI0edExep6jsnRHS+p+MglbUq75 FBxE978cCCEhruMqcRFYrhgRrlnCECQ+EOl8QKh3+Km2CktNcZxWEH8nVv8rlgZj8tis 4bIg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pubg7CcdWFogaf3PAH1ZeXk5XSDeZggEqtD1MW6pm3eVMw7A1Vmg CHdHwyPWvKj4xvnhe/j3Du8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJQFXZHcrvsamY48iGYzUiM7IOvF7bNUPYDSwSSuc4M9GGaAjz3f6OJGNrzItluyQ67qa76xw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f30c:: with SMTP id i12mr37319317wro.426.1588117021297; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 91sm29605157wra.37.2020.04.28.16.36.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:37:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:179254 Archived-At: On 29.04.2020 02:10, Paul Eggert wrote: > The "do not touch" values are called "constants" in the documentation now, just > as they are in the documentation for the other languages. In other languages, constants are something you can't change. > I don't see why values > that should not change should be called "mutable". Mutable values are ones the user _can_ change. It's a structural thing. > And even if we called these values "mutable", I don't see why the documentation > should distinguish among the various types of "mutable" values that should not > change. Because the user sees strings and conses in both cases. All mutable values, and yet changing some of them is a bad idea (even though Emacs will most likely let you). > Generally speaking, the Elisp documentation should just say "you shouldn't > change these objects", like it does for C/C++/etc. Do you see me arguing against that?