From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ren=E9_Kyllingstad?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta Subject: Re: Emacs setup assistants Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:59:49 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87zn847n6a.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1438-Thu20May2004203119+0300-eliz@gnu.org> <4nd64y29zc.fsf@lifelogs.com> <2719-Fri21May2004201241+0300-eliz@gnu.org> <4nn041u050.fsf@lifelogs.com> <4n1xl9kjab.fsf@lifelogs.com> <4nisehhpsp.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1085698611 8715 80.91.224.253 (27 May 2004 22:56:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:56:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, xemacs-beta@xemacs.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri May 28 00:56:43 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BTTnn-0007Ta-00 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 00:56:43 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BTTnn-0005fD-00 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 00:56:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BTTaX-0000JX-5f for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:43:01 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BTT3f-0002qI-Fs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:09:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BTOhf-0000vg-Vt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:30:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.141.71.133] (helo=mail.esmertec.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BTOET-0004YA-6e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:59:59 -0400 Original-To: Ted Zlatanov In-Reply-To: <4nisehhpsp.fsf@lifelogs.com> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Thu, 27 May 2004 11:07:18 -0400") X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:24038 gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:14877 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:24038 * Ted Zlatanov: > On 26 May 2004, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca wrote: > > > I think it only makes sense to prevent users from doing something if we > > can't make the result sensible. I.e. jumping from 3.1 to 2 should > > *not* be prevented since it should simply do the same as hitting > > `previous' twice. It might make sense to prevent the user from jumping > > from 3.1 to 3.3 if there's a good technical reason. But nothing should > > prevent the user from jumping from 3.3 to 3.1 and then back to 3.3. In > > the above example, I can't think of any good reason why a user can't > > jump straight to > > 3.3 since setting up "sending mail" should not have any dependency w.r.t > > "news host": the suggested ordering is arbitrary anyway, so the user should > > be free to do things in another order. > > > > To prevent users from getting confused, items in the outline that have > > not been completed yet should be dimmed/highlighted. > > I disagree with this design choice, as I've mentioned already. I > think it complicates the UI unnecessarily and does not bring any real > functionality to assistants. If, however, you or anyone else chooses > to implement it and make it the default navigation interface, I won't > argue. Any assistant is better than nothing. FWIW: I consider myself a power user, and I would be very happy to have assistants implemented as outlined (with a clear view of which steps are to be performed, and some flexibility in moving betweem them for commiting/applying the changes) for the reasons David K. and Stefan M. outlined. I would certainly use them myself (for example for setting up spam filtering in Gnus), and it would allow me to introduce (X)Emacs to other people without forcing them to spend a lot of time up front reading the manuals and getting comfortable with (even basic) elisp. There, one more datapoint in the "what would (power) users want" debate :) -- René