From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jens Schmidt Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 00:05:25 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <97224c4f-fad4-ae01-46c1-5755d97d9a92@gutov.dev> <87fs3ztq38.fsf@localhost> <87cyz3qwba.fsf@posteo.net> <8734zztmiz.fsf@localhost> <87sf7zqs3l.fsf@yahoo.com> <87il8vs6e7.fsf@localhost> <87jztbqrc9.fsf@yahoo.com> <877cpbs5a0.fsf@localhost> <87fs3zqqgj.fsf@yahoo.com> <874jkfs4o0.fsf@localhost> <87y1hroz47.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12487"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.14.0 Cc: Po Lu , Dmitry Gutov , Stefan Kangas , Danny Freeman , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org To: Philip Kaludercic , Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 01 00:07:10 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qbpok-00032D-J5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 00:07:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbpnp-0004TO-HB; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:06:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbpnn-0004GM-4Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:06:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mr5.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.165]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbpnk-0006Xn-BU; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 18:06:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1693519565; bh=X5dX7IxfEaHQ/a8Kqhr+eLa0d8ZXlZxvGA5bfyKVPu0=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language:To:References: From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=nYL1EJzYk12H+T7baQSC3zlzU3Qdc7SiawD3946v0ZjqBUUIj03RiY2Xg0zulO70+ dN/vQvtkFNSIEPkRjjy9yupTgxIVk2xD9x/i+IoJYLpu9iwrvw/SWboz2LF0VpKNUM Ksp/qkGfe2LKDl0o+WVcDgVVyFTDYE2djNw9xvjc= Original-Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr5.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4RcFbx1Wz0z1y7X; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 22:06:05 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.138] (unknown [86.33.89.202]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4RcFbL41CRzHpxf; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 22:05:31 +0000 (UTC) Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US In-Reply-To: <87y1hroz47.fsf@posteo.net> X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 2559 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1693519560-637FF18D-92859551/0/0 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=145.253.228.165; envelope-from=jschmidt4gnu@vodafonemail.de; helo=mr5.vodafonemail.de X-Spam_score_int: -62 X-Spam_score: -6.3 X-Spam_bar: ------ X-Spam_report: (-6.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.478, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309702 Archived-At: On 2023-08-31 20:17, Philip Kaludercic wrote: Speaking as a relative newcomer - being active on emacs-devel since May or so. I'm not taking side here in any way, just describing my experience. > There comes a point where people have to accept that mailing lists > aren't weird and unusable -- this is not a primarily technical problem. Opening the MUA to compose a new mail is easy enough. But then the problems start: No HTML mail, please, no top-posting (which is corporate standard), get your MUA to do decent line wrapping, do all these things so that your mail on emacs-devel looks like the mails of all the others. Also, you probably would like to use different identities for Emacs and the rest of your mail, which adds more trouble. A side note on "Too much traffic? Just rely on CC!": I did so when I posted my first issue on the Org mailing list - and then started wondering why communication stopped. Well, somebody replied only to the list, and it was rather cumbersome to set up a decent reply to join that thread again. What I'm trying to say here is: Email might look like it's easy to use, but in the context of a mailing list it's not necessarily so, even from the technical side. These text entry boxes on Github et al. definitely feel easier and more inviting to use. > Some people are afraid of communicating with the mailing list or > reporting bugs because of an image issue. I have on more than one > occasion heard of people who intentionally avoid communicating with > emacs-devel due to bad experience. Others fear sending a message out > into the blue and not knowing who will read and respond to what they > said, will they be shouted down or just ignored. Exactly. TBH I still have to assemble courage to post here. All these top dogs with their super-dry yet elaborate communication style are surely, um, intimidating. Po Lu's mails, to pick one example, are a constant source of new English vocabulary for me (recent addition: "brazen"). But at least RMS lets slip in some typos in his mails... > What I think the Org project does well is the "This month in Org" line > of posts, that help highlight contributions from newcomers and > familiarise those familiar with a mailing list with the procedures going > on here. Mixing the "help" mailing list with the "devel" mailing list is another things that makes Org more attractive to users, I guess. It feels more democratic. But then, Org feels more bazaar-like, as a whole, and Emacs more cathedral-like.