From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#17362: 24.4.50; inconsistent key notation: `ESC' vs `' Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <47b1a857-a5d6-4e5a-b8f6-f96f9e201c89@default> <83fvkwmagn.fsf@gnu.org> <4294927c-08b3-4c65-83e4-1582e8d0d859@default> <838uqom7lm.fsf@gnu.org> <8361lsm3b6.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1398812490 32450 80.91.229.3 (29 Apr 2014 23:01:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 23:01:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 17362@debbugs.gnu.org To: Josh , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 30 01:01:23 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WfH1e-0002XQ-Tv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Apr 2014 01:01:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53860 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WfH1e-0005nj-D5 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:01:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46231) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WfH1U-0005nW-6N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:01:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WfH1K-0000Ho-RA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:01:12 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:56626) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WfH1K-0000H6-O9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:01:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WfH1K-0007wl-2t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:01:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 23:01:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17362 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 17362-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17362.139881242530485 (code B ref 17362); Tue, 29 Apr 2014 23:01:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 17362) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2014 23:00:25 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45744 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WfH0h-0007vc-Tn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:00:24 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:23833) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WfH0d-0007vI-Qa for 17362@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:00:20 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s3TN0CXk009915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 Apr 2014 23:00:13 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s3TN0AP8026457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 29 Apr 2014 23:00:11 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s3TN0AW8026451; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 23:00:10 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:88465 Archived-At: > Sorry to be mentioning this after you committed your changes, but I > wanted to comment about the impact of these changes on new users. > Difficulty specifying key bindings correctly is fairly common among > newer users, and I think that this difficulty is worsened by > occurrences in the documentation of non-canonical (with respect to > kbd arguments) key notation. There's an EmacsWiki page[0] about key > binding notation that reads in part, "Use C-h k to find out how Emacs > describes the key sequence, and copy & paste that into your kbd > string." It would be good if the info manual used the same notation. >=20 > http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki?KeyBindingNotation That's what the discussion here after Eli's fix has been about. But this is not really the best place to discuss or propose it. Why don't you file another bug for this? I have brought it up before, in emacs-devel and perhaps in one or more bug reports, but maybe there is another chance for such a simplification. Unfortunately, Eli opposes it so far, and he is no doubt the person the most interested in working on the manual (and the most familiar with it and with its build tools). But AFAIK that does not necessarily mean that the question is closed forever.