From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#17511: 24.4.50; `line-move-ignore-invisible': doc and purpose not clear Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 13:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1400273674 22715 80.91.229.3 (16 May 2014 20:54:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 20:54:34 +0000 (UTC) To: 17511@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 16 22:54:26 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP97-00051O-F1 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 22:54:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37781 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP97-0000GH-60 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:54:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47717) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP8v-0000Fm-Jk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:54:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP8l-0006Zz-9H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:54:13 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:44639) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP8l-0006Zv-5o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:54:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP8k-0007Lw-Hf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:54:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 20:54:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 17511 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.140027362128219 (code B ref -1); Fri, 16 May 2014 20:54:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 May 2014 20:53:41 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37703 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP8O-0007L4-9m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:53:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45850) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP8L-0007Km-Ls for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:53:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP86-0006Sh-0x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:53:32 -0400 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:44343) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP85-0006Sd-V0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:53:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47500) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP7x-000055-6o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:53:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP7o-0006P4-9Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:53:13 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:24816) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WlP7o-0006Op-2o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 May 2014 16:53:04 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s4GKr1w7001380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 16 May 2014 20:53:02 GMT Original-Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4GKr18W022051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 16 May 2014 20:53:01 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s4GKqxKt026112 for ; Fri, 16 May 2014 20:53:00 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:89176 Archived-At: 1. The doc string says only that `next-line' and `previous-line' ignore invisible lines. What does it mean for these commands to "ignore invisible lines" - what does "ignore" mean here? What's the user-visible BEHAVIOR difference between a nil and a non-nil value? Why/when might a user change the value to nil? 2. The doc string speaks of invisible lines. But (elisp) `Invisible Text' speaks of "invisible newlines" (not lines), which is presumably something different (newline chars vs lines of any chars except newline, possibly including the separating newlines). Are both true? Which? 3 The manual speaks of "the user-level line motion commands", not just `next-line' and `previous-line'. Is there a difference? What other commands are involved here, besides those two? 4. This Elisp manual node is not very clear in general. Again, what does it mean for these line commands to ignore invisible newlines? Or, for that matter, for them to "not care whether the text is invisible"? What user-visible BEHAVIOR difference is there? 5. After saying that we provide option `line-move-ignore-invisible' specifically to let you prevent line motion commands from ignoring invisible newlines (whatever that might mean!), this node says that if ANY command ends with point in a certain position relative to invisible text, then the cursor is automatically moved past that stretch of invisible text (one direction or the other). How is this related to the previous text about line motion commands and `line-move-ignore-invisible'? If a user ends up understanding something coherent and useful from this text, s?he is lucky indeed. In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-04-29 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 117031 monnier@iro.umontreal.ca-20140429151607-qnkgbymwfaj5ut= 08 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include''