From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:13:37 +0300 Message-ID: References: <4XvMn7QQudwuCq-3cSOnqK_gBoHnmblv2--PKi2oupbCsZwaxxrzA2Chwb6LEzzg1TYjAJNboC8lwPgw8VA5IhYUBs-Jly9HfTqPtsgZUHg=@protonmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="75919"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 To: ndame , Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 28 02:14:32 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jTDtO-000JbL-Vk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:14:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37028 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTDtN-00016S-RH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:14:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53942) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTDsi-00005C-DO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:13:48 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTDsb-0005CI-Ow for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:13:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]:34053) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTDsb-0005CB-BZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:13:41 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id j1so22612159wrt.1 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:13:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kFpJjo5VcgKLbm5ESssEixK6ykRcUqjpeKOVV3PNaMc=; b=BPeH8ozSazu4dDbZ0rSzX7TeVnKN8rCmXGiASZGeF19Jcyhk853v2BaEDbO/2QcCVQ 2UlzH2J5kPTKsg6MzOXcBay07QuTxak/udJUO/nNnxnAdEKAZbXBCyAnanWzyrl602+4 DaCGXaMbKSSa/cc8x+lwM7e82DmiH1H4V1S1fQz6nwDhC9NetQDtV9kvXdDoNGkCETPT PF5BTv/CJJIuFMXJZMu2mf4zhTpLAquZKvPvlm0B+BtE8cL+5kGMwQJ3OgsUKpbbV5Gi UflI+2uhNYnlBSxMLIOSdcyN5IiQDjs+f8WgooMBHQm9Q/q7e1H1Rq019K30IDinjr1H ibsw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=kFpJjo5VcgKLbm5ESssEixK6ykRcUqjpeKOVV3PNaMc=; b=fp2hxrqIQyRH44FMR0Fv9LrMv8eQWIm2PYkFa4K6+Ssd0h6WXw+BECUGn+6xWTV05t DMr+fV4eV7KOA1fQpNJBVlVD1fVVCcKEPc4h7gfDgN14B+xJ8zC+DfClLkUdC6ANl+PN NshKLWpMIBPQzWijtjqNTVOIOrF5eI2nlIzsFUeq+KLBulf9SBXH5pRB1AT/Pmp/1Zcn YHQTwxzIJ0M2pX1TsIzkpWqL6Wtj91sg8wzT2qTmBGGu+8E+WPVEKKzILxZFOkgP+q/l +QRflwa0sq/2NajC3zGLJICLHfGC6poD6ICqRIlwMFqc4XFPEu63sOEZgLVUh7JpaJ66 7OtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubYU+F++wgBIuSGmHlKScjv8nV+eE0Hef7WKc7Boku5SXHCmjxy O7ktqZhjJyf/kRvppEmm7lEMWwyDZHc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypK8C70pcl4vsp2RSCHbtEaetTMK5D7NWZxTAz5LKgS66HX+lSnepR6+aj+wo6PpoA0Irj3cjA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6445:: with SMTP id d5mr29154047wrw.373.1588032819573; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id t67sm1109705wmg.40.2020.04.27.17.13.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:13:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4XvMn7QQudwuCq-3cSOnqK_gBoHnmblv2--PKi2oupbCsZwaxxrzA2Chwb6LEzzg1TYjAJNboC8lwPgw8VA5IhYUBs-Jly9HfTqPtsgZUHg=@protonmail.com> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42b; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::42b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247975 Archived-At: On 27.04.2020 20:50, ndame wrote: > >> The article is here: >> >> https://download.blender.org/documentation/pdf/LXF204.feat_3d.5cjt.pdf > > That's not it, google found a version, some excerpts: Yeah, the above is a 5-year old article. But it was interesting too, and especially the emphasis on animators generally needing dedicated training to start being productive. > "Blender developers – would defend the software’s defiantly idiosyncratic UI on the grounds that ‘different doesn’t always mean worse’. Blender could do everything that other 3D packages could, they argued, and given a little time, it was possible to adapt your old working methods to a new combination of icons, keyboard shortcuts and menu commands. But for artists working in visual effects or game development – notoriously high-pressure industries, particularly when deadlines are looming – time is at a premium. Many people who might otherwise have loved Blender got no further than its splash screen" > > ... > > "Others struck at the heart of Blender veterans’ sense of identity and even their muscle memory. In almost every other 3D application, you leftclick to select things. In Blender, prior to 2.80, you rightclicked by default. Supporters argued that it made for a faster, more precise workflow – but it was also alien to artists coming to Blender from other software." > > ... > > > https://www.pressreader.com/australia/linux-format/20191217/281745566267591 That's a very good read. Another quote, not much relevant for Emacs, but it could make for a good promo material for FSF: “We don’t see open source as free. We see it as free-ing,” says Bell. “You could cer­tainly save money if you wanted to, but I see it as an op­por­tu­nity to take a por­tion of the bud­get and re­di­rect it to our core soft­ware. We truly hope that oth­ers will take the de­vel­op­ment work we’ve put in and push it fur­ther.” > There are obvious similarities with Emacs' current situation. I also see a lot of parallels between the programs themselves.