From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "paul r" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:28:55 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87myopnj0l.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874pavg45t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <004d01c88e01$0f93b8f0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <20080325213859.GB1641@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1206484240 30876 80.91.229.12 (25 Mar 2008 22:30:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:30:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , Richard Stallman , Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Alan Mackenzie" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 25 23:31:10 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JeHfc-0005Ij-0y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:31:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JeHf0-0002wt-Oi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:30:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JeHdc-00028P-3l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:29:00 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JeHda-00026b-9G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:28:59 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JeHdZ-00026Q-VE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:28:57 -0400 Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.155]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JeHdZ-00040Y-L6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:28:57 -0400 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id d23so3451099fga.30 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:28:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=xSBlEcXbUJ3di672P5M0FMTihHG15dgRC39Wo3GD5m4=; b=B3ATHbxhqxa2CzFqMSkVmLU3xMuBOObbpB50GCY2ZisfgdUMwpsJG6iGGdfIa0KAdHbgzhJy1mSNEEusB8MXy5P8Zk/W79Msq3aZUqc2n9bkRVQ4/cQf0MQqMvXshoLS09Ju320isBDDv86nJRuOkDrYe+mkslVPpJmWtNjLiw4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=eKSZNrAC/iCzfPqHlDskZXRKoPUU1grHASRavR78v17aYFh3KvGRrK7+PypqUKBSjQBcHuCy9pWVm7HUqx4JZ5gOYC40Qaw1pX84lJqRQKIW0MmS2PgaIZfhHtfM1Jx3n6s1Yj4XtuRD0aa5cL1DnZX/vm+iodrOu8Gfame/Nsw= Original-Received: by 10.82.146.10 with SMTP id t10mr22537626bud.6.1206484136095; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.82.175.3 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:28:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20080325213859.GB1641@muc.de> Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:93456 Archived-At: 2008/3/25, Alan Mackenzie : > I've been thinking; what are the requirements here? I think they're: > (i) It must be _easy_ for a newbie to start an Emacs in "lazy" mode > (i.e., with the UI stuff from lesser applications enabled). ok > (ii) The said newby must be made aware that she's started a "dumbed down" > version of Emacs, and encouraged to switch a standard setup. I think this is acceptable. Emacs(easy) must be made to minimize surprise, then going from emacs(simple) to emacs(regular) should remain a doable path, with a tutorial explaining what will change, and why those changes will increase power. If this is well implemented, I think it can be a working solution. > (iii) The most standard way of starting emacs (i.e., the command "emacs") > must start the standard setup. I do not agree on that point. Again, I think power users must adapt, not beginners. > I think all these things can be achieved with a simple alias: > > % alias emacs_easy='emacs --load /path/to/lisp/emacs-easy.el' > > . emacs-easy.el, besides setting up the "easy" defaults, should display > a startup screen with a message something like: Could you detail what is the benefit from your pov of an alias over a "mode", as proposed before ? > "You are running an Emacs configuration designed to be easy to > _learn_. When you have become somewhat proficient in its use, you > may wish to switch to a standard Emacs setup, which is optimised for > ease of _use_ rather than ease of learning." I like how you formulate the difference between ease of learn and ease of use.