From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "paul r" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Transient Mark Mode on by default Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:57:50 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87myopnj0l.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080324115510.GA1563@muc.de> <001f01c88dee$b7d48430$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1206392306 15052 80.91.229.12 (24 Mar 2008 20:58:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:58:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Chong Yidong , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 24 21:58:55 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JdtkY-0003wl-N5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:58:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jdtjx-0006gJ-Jm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:57:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jdtjt-0006eQ-GK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:57:53 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jdtjt-0006dk-4V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:57:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jdtjs-0006dd-SG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:57:52 -0400 Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.156]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jdtjs-0005DO-F2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:57:52 -0400 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id d23so2894022fga.30 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:57:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=1cwlKbx8ahG6GDNGT/ybgLpoGSC0fBmzET0d49xWgyk=; b=b+G23swwXqfdvtf+D7DqMgYRW11luUukE0yZ+sD4oV0bZ1eOCcsg5UNsF/IWuSQ4W1HHekoSjVJmMqEbXAHBB9tW6EiKnG1olaHzOU0ZnkE74gC0MW/joTRS+BYwo6R1683UMXCNh0mpqeEBgEL+HITPBnwuVzUs2+g8jnstW44= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RzRBq+aWAQWv69rozeOvMgJ8J4I7tgMItOVP+ym5ntq++bZ5zIaf47CrnTHrWKu6fZ3w7MXpNqW0/v8rkZ4wzRXD4DWEPjbNCRvf/N2H0lZoAR+OGf5gdd1bhFk4vFZWiIY9W6dxwW59ag5/F2B9LHsrzeDDJvq3t5HxUiCViMg= Original-Received: by 10.82.150.20 with SMTP id x20mr18586518bud.16.1206392271004; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.82.175.3 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:57:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <001f01c88dee$b7d48430$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:93334 Archived-At: 2008/3/24, Drew Adams : > > Emacs is fully customizable, but only advanced users *really can* > > customize. > > If that is true, then we need to improve the customization process. It is OK for > some customizing to be only for advanced users, but it is not good for all > customizing to be only for advanced users. > > Can you point out some specific customization problems for a beginner (in a new > thread?) The first step to fixing them is to identify them. Most average developpers I know will simply never tweak any of the piece of software they use. You are all very smart here, so I'm sure you are not concerned at all, but really I think a lot of people are. Some developpers I know will start to tweak their tools after many monthes of happy usage with default settings. Almost none of them will start to tweak it *before* really using it. I think emacs customization process is already fairly good. But many beginners will simply give up *before* even discovering M-x customize ... sad, but true at least for people I know.