From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: 23425@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote.
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 17:14:37 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <e0ec87c7-dd41-b10b-2eed-4f0426b16c62@cs.ucla.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170605203753.GB30946@acm.fritz.box>
>> Elisp code needed to use
>> (message "%s" STR) even before the change you're objecting to,
>
> Did it? When and why?
Yes, because one can’t pass arbitrary strings to the message function
and expect them to be displayed as-is. This has been true for years. For
example, lisp/ChangeLog.8 says this:
1999-02-23 Richard M. Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
* subr.el (with-temp-message): Use %s so % in old msg won't fool us.
This use of (message "%s" ...) is still in master, and would still be
needed even if we went back to Emacs 24-style message formatting.
> Somebody using message to output Lisp will use ' just as I did - and
suffer the
> same horrendous problems
Sure, like the “horrendous” problems with %. For example, in Emacs 24
your example, when used with data involving %:
(setq c-parse-state-state '((a '%%)))
(message
(concat "(setq "
(mapconcat
(lambda (arg)
(format "%s %s%s" (car arg)
(if (atom (cdr arg)) "" "'")
(if (markerp (cdr arg))
(format "(copy-marker %s)" (marker-position (cdr arg)))
(cdr arg))))
c-parse-state-state " ")
")"))
returns "(setq a '((quote %)))", which is obviously wrong and which
results in silent data corruption.
> Do you, perhaps, have another strategem for preventing this problem?
Sure: don’t pass arbitrary strings to the message function.
> How do you propose to prevent such puzzlement and anger in the future
Not by this:
>> (error "Can't find `%s' in %s" thing where)))
>> => (error "Can%'t find %`%s%' in %s" thing where)))
For Emacs code this would likely be a cure worse than the disease, by
causing more puzzlement and anger than it would prevent. It would make
formats significantly harder to read. And as Clément mentioned, it would
introduce compatibility problems of its own.
There is a better way if the primary goal is to avoid quote translation:
(error "Can't find `%s' in %s" thing where)))
=> (error "Can’t find ‘%s’ in %s" thing where)))
Compared to %` and %', this is simpler, easier to read, and more
compatible with current and older Emacs versions. A downside, though, is
that it would involve changing hundreds or thousands of strings in the
Emacs source (just as %` and %' would).
> You're not seriously
> telling me that any of your students who've written a message call with
> a "%s" in the format string remain unaware of the role of %, are you?
Sure, they learn about % after the message function doesn’t work the way
they naively expected. In that respect, % is like ` and '.
> There are around 275 calls to message which have a non-literal
> format argument.
Each one stands for possibly many other calls, and we don’t know how
many of these other calls might cause a problem.
> The consequences of surreptitious unwanted translation ...
>> It's not surreptitious: it's documented.
> And this documentation is useless for preventing the problems.
True, documentation by itself does not prevent programming problems.
However, this doesn’t change the fact that quote translation is
documented. It is not “surreptitious” or “implicit” or “vague” or
“stealthy” or “fuzzy”.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-06-06 0:14 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 123+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2016-05-02 14:55 bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote Alan Mackenzie
2016-05-02 16:25 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-05-02 16:41 ` Drew Adams
2016-05-02 17:53 ` Paul Eggert
2016-05-02 19:10 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-05-03 15:17 ` Paul Eggert
2016-05-03 16:36 ` Drew Adams
2016-05-03 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-03 15:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-03 16:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-05-03 16:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-03 20:03 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-05-03 20:49 ` Paul Eggert
2016-05-04 15:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-04 16:48 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-05-04 17:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-04 17:37 ` Josh
2016-05-04 19:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-04 18:04 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-05-04 18:39 ` Paul Eggert
2016-05-04 18:57 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-05-04 19:02 ` John Wiegley
2016-05-04 21:34 ` Paul Eggert
2016-05-04 21:50 ` Paul Eggert
2016-05-04 23:49 ` Paul Eggert
2016-05-05 15:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-10 14:41 ` Paul Eggert
2017-05-31 1:07 ` Glenn Morris
2017-05-31 1:42 ` Paul Eggert
2017-05-31 21:24 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-05-31 23:26 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-02 21:02 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-02 21:15 ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-06-03 21:10 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-03 21:10 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-03 21:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-06-03 21:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-06-02 21:47 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-03 0:13 ` Glenn Morris
2017-06-03 21:01 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-03 21:01 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-03 20:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-04 21:01 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-05 16:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-05 18:19 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-05 18:31 ` Andreas Schwab
2017-06-05 18:31 ` Andreas Schwab
2017-06-05 20:37 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-05 21:05 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-06-07 16:50 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-07 19:29 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-06-07 19:29 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-06-06 0:14 ` Paul Eggert [this message]
2017-06-06 8:21 ` Andreas Schwab
2017-06-06 12:24 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-06-06 13:55 ` Yuri Khan
2017-06-06 13:55 ` Yuri Khan
2017-06-06 18:21 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-06-06 18:59 ` Yuri Khan
2017-06-06 18:59 ` Yuri Khan
2017-06-06 19:39 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-06-06 19:39 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-06-07 4:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-06-07 4:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-06-06 12:24 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-06-06 23:09 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-07 7:44 ` Andreas Schwab
2017-06-07 18:17 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-08 8:04 ` Andreas Schwab
2017-06-07 13:27 ` Drew Adams
2017-06-07 13:27 ` Drew Adams
2017-06-06 8:21 ` Andreas Schwab
2017-06-07 19:13 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-07 19:27 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-06-07 19:27 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-06-07 19:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-06-07 19:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-06-07 19:51 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-07 19:51 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-07 20:33 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-07 20:56 ` Drew Adams
2017-06-07 22:05 ` `message' with quotes [was: bug#23425: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote] Drew Adams
2017-06-08 17:49 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-07 20:33 ` bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-07 23:28 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-08 17:34 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-08 20:17 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-09 19:41 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-09 20:17 ` Drew Adams
2017-06-09 20:38 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-09 21:05 ` Drew Adams
2017-06-09 21:44 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-09 22:51 ` Drew Adams
2017-06-10 0:20 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-10 10:01 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-10 10:52 ` David Engster
2017-06-10 11:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-06-10 13:01 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-10 13:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-06-11 10:03 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-11 14:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-06-10 15:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-06-05 20:37 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-05 18:19 ` Paul Eggert
2017-06-05 16:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-03 20:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-01 16:56 ` Glenn Morris
2017-06-03 21:07 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-06-03 21:07 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-05-04 18:46 ` John Wiegley
2016-05-04 20:23 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-05-04 21:15 ` John Wiegley
2016-05-04 22:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-05-05 7:12 ` Andreas Schwab
2016-05-05 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-05 8:06 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-05-05 17:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-05 23:46 ` John Wiegley
2016-05-06 8:54 ` Nicolas Petton
2016-05-04 19:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-04 21:49 ` Andreas Schwab
2017-06-09 20:31 ` Glenn Morris
2017-06-10 7:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
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