From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Scot Becker Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: line-move-visual Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:43:37 +0100 Message-ID: References: <200907092112.21879.jem@iki.fi> <87ws6hupsk.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87ocrtulzd.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87tz1lja6l.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247215460 19544 80.91.229.12 (10 Jul 2009 08:44:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:44:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: miles@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, jem@iki.fi, Kenichi Handa To: Bastien Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 10 10:44:13 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MPBiG-00085b-JC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:44:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56906 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MPBiG-0000oU-3I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:44:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MPBiB-0000lb-Hu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:44:07 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MPBi6-0000aq-B1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:44:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34052 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MPBi5-0000ac-Gv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:44:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f213.google.com ([209.85.218.213]:63531) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MPBhk-0006Nz-1h; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:43:40 -0400 Original-Received: by bwz9 with SMTP id 9so746850bwz.42 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 01:43:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jJY3BcG3cWn7M+uPPGyX/poT/uHaRj7O7kgWayVwxXM=; b=T52eP+Vmn0R1Q6tgyLrf20mvkYYd38l+dfV04q3XFZPGEN90GvbfOdf89sml3BsdW0 QSXjpj/twdjjY5IvSGxfqCwOwIIKbm4Jbv2a9OXnJmXSL9iropI1gRciohcHa3rCGHf/ ewwC8ZY3wSnHNNGUUN3A9d9G+XEMB3fJSP7/g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hPmJD8NFYgs0FOlUvzmDc+phLuvf3A2nHcjtf/ZOBlrkjwYqo3/DV3pIczvmWOpUpo 1F27u00jcxo9hQfmBre2u6Hp8aVgahpaOy81fgZ3qLFudcaIKEGZaUkqWaMYCIscJgi+ WdwPKHV6yDE4/ccrr7Mgi5XsEmyJmzqrzKGtA= Original-Received: by 10.204.50.195 with SMTP id a3mr1711697bkg.94.1247215417236; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 01:43:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87tz1lja6l.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112281 Archived-At: Good defaults are important. They are not the answer. Discoverability is key. This could be done through a customize interface, as Stephen suggests or simply through a piece of startup documentation called "Things you might want to tweak." This would contain not just the "wacky new variables that dazzle old-timers," but also the flip side, the so-called "crufty unixy defaults which trip up newbies". As well as the "defaults more for writers of natural languages" and "defaults more for coders," and so on. The Emacs developers take obvious care in making thoughtful defaults, and this list takes impassioned (!) care to help them do it. But the real issue for a variable like this is that the user knows that it's there and can set it to get what s/he wants with a minimum amount of work. There exist beginner customization helps (e.g. on the EmacsWiki or in the many init files on the web), but I think it would be worth it to identify a set of 10-30 variables and tweaks which are most significant in helping new users (or new users of a given release) get Emacs to broadly behave in ways that are congenial to them. These can be put into a customize buffer or a new Quick-Start-Tweaks doc (or best: in both). This should be taken in to the official Emacs distribution, and linked to on the open Splash screen. The set should include not recently-introduced, but also things of broad impact on the user experience which broad sections of our target audience may reasonably need one way or the other. Scot Vim user from 1997-2008. Emacs user since the introduction of visual-line-mode.