* Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) @ 2010-02-02 3:08 Craig Muth 2010-02-04 3:24 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-05 18:22 ` Mark A. Hershberger 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Craig Muth @ 2010-02-02 3:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 383 bytes --] Interested in hearing your feedback about my framework. It adds free-form wiki and tree features (and many others) to emacs. Just did a couple screencasts: http://xiki.org/screencasts/wiki_syntax.html http://xiki.org/screencasts/web_development.html Much of it was originally elisp but is now ruby via el4r (I'm a much better ruby programmer than elisp programmer). --Craig [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 608 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) 2010-02-02 3:08 Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) Craig Muth @ 2010-02-04 3:24 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-05 18:22 ` Mark A. Hershberger 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Craig Muth @ 2010-02-04 3:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 751 bytes --] I added .mkv versions of the screencasts. Again, very interested in feedback. Worth checking out, IMO, for the file browsing/searching ideas if nothing else: http://xiki.org/screencasts/wiki_syntax.html http://xiki.org/screencasts/web_development.html --Craig On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:08 PM, Craig Muth <craig.muth@gmail.com> wrote: > Interested in hearing your feedback about my framework. It adds free-form > wiki and tree features (and many others) to emacs. Just did a couple > screencasts: > > http://xiki.org/screencasts/wiki_syntax.html > http://xiki.org/screencasts/web_development.html > > Much of it was originally elisp but is now ruby via el4r (I'm a much better > ruby programmer than elisp programmer). > > --Craig > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1526 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) 2010-02-02 3:08 Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) Craig Muth 2010-02-04 3:24 ` Craig Muth @ 2010-02-05 18:22 ` Mark A. Hershberger 2010-02-05 19:32 ` Craig Muth ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Mark A. Hershberger @ 2010-02-05 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Craig Muth; +Cc: emacs-devel Craig Muth <craig.muth@gmail.com> writes: > Interested in hearing your feedback about my framework. It adds free-form > wiki and tree features (and many others) to emacs. Looks like you're reproducing OrgMode (http://orgmode.org/). Why would an OrgMode user be interested in Xiki? Mark. -- http://hexmode.com/ The only alternative to Tradition is bad tradition. — Jaraslov Pelikan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) 2010-02-05 18:22 ` Mark A. Hershberger @ 2010-02-05 19:32 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-05 20:48 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-07 9:47 ` Štěpán Němec 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Craig Muth @ 2010-02-05 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark A. Hershberger, emacs-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3021 bytes --] > Looks like you're reproducing OrgMode (http://orgmode.org/). There's definitely some overlap, but a large amount that doesn't overlap, I think. (I'm no authority on org mode though.) Xiki doesn't do the cool scheduling and using a tree as a general html or latex editor stuff, for example. And I don't think OrgMode has much in the way of general filesystem navigation or searching features, though I could easily be mistaken. Xiki has a free-form wiki syntax for navigable file trees, file contents, searches, and running shell commands in them such as: - /tmp/ - foo/ - foot.txt | Some lines in the file | Some lines in the file ! ls -l - ##food/ - fool/ - foof.txt | A line that contains "food" | Another food line lower down in the file (The "-" bullets are optional, but allow you to use the mouse to expand/collapse.) If you watch the web development screencast ( http://xiki.org/screencasts/web_development.html) I think you'll recognize many things that aren't in or differ quite a bit from org mode. Also the 2 screencasts show only a subset of features in xiki. If there's interest there are about 6 more screencasts I could do. Where there is overlap (taking notes, etc) xiki takes a very different, less-structured approach. > Why would an OrgMode user be interested in Xiki? There are some innovative things in xiki that could potentially be borrowed and merged into org mode, at the very least. I don't foresee many OrgMode users switching to xiki. Though, any features could probably augment each other quite nicely. Like having your notes in Org's format and building up xiki filesystem trees within them. Or, maybe just using xiki's plugins to generate Merb/Rails apps and browse/maniplate couchdb, for example, or to control Firefox (reloading, sending javascript to it etc.) or committing to git during web development. Emacs has a lot of respect / adoption in the ruby community. Among emacs users who find themselves more proficient in ruby than elisp and have interest in using their code/gems/apps within emacs (a potent combination) I think xiki will be interesting. Note xiki owes much of its ruby-interaction features to el4r, which it's built on top of. If you have simple ruby code that accesses an api it is trivial to create a tree-based UI, like the ones for git/couchdb/merb that are shown in the screencasts. --Craig On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Mark A. Hershberger <mah@everybody.org>wrote: > Craig Muth <craig.muth@gmail.com> writes: > > > Interested in hearing your feedback about my framework. It adds > free-form > > wiki and tree features (and many others) to emacs. > > Looks like you're reproducing OrgMode (http://orgmode.org/). Why would > an OrgMode user be interested in Xiki? > > Mark. > > -- > http://hexmode.com/ > > The only alternative to Tradition is bad tradition. > — Jaraslov Pelikan > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4053 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) 2010-02-05 18:22 ` Mark A. Hershberger 2010-02-05 19:32 ` Craig Muth @ 2010-02-05 20:48 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-06 1:26 ` Mark A. Hershberger 2010-02-07 9:47 ` Štěpán Němec 2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Craig Muth @ 2010-02-05 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel, Mark A. Hershberger [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2108 bytes --] Here's an example of a xiki tree you might build up when working in some elisp files. Could be useful for communicating about code on mailing lists like this one. Forgive me if org mode (or something else) already does this. If so please enlighten me - I'd be interested in checking it out. - /usr/share/emacs22/ - lisp/ - isearch.el | (defun isearch-forward (&optional regexp-p no-recursive-edit) | Type \\[isearch-yank-char] to yank char from buffer onto end of search\ | (defun isearch-mode (forward &optional regexp op-fun recursive-edit word-p) | (defvar isearch-mode-map | (define-key map "\M-\C-y" 'isearch-yank-char) - Not recognizing var: | (defun isearch-yank-char (&optional arg) + all lines using the map: ##isearch-mode-map/ - You can see it compiles: ! ls -l ! -rw-r--r-- 1 craig admin 97058 Feb 2 11:58 isearch.el ! -rw-r--r-- 1 craig admin 66540 Feb 2 11:58 isearch.elc - site-lisp/ - session.el | (defcustom session-registers '((?0 . ?9) ?- ?= ?\\ ?` region (?a . ?z)) - Todo: want to include this: | CHAR or (FROM . TO) or `file' or `region' or t. Such trees are navigable in any buffer/file (you can just paste in the tree), though in note-mode they will be colorized. Normally you build up these trees (using keyboard shortcuts) for your self, for navigation while you're working and for reference later. You can also send them to other people, and they can use them to navigate (possibly changing the /usr/share/emacs22/ line first if appropriate). Note you can C-. (or C-enter, or double-click) on dirs to expand and show their files, on files to open them or expand their contents, on lines within files to jump to them, on the "!" line to run the command, and on the "##" line to expand the search (searches expand out into a sub-tree). The "- foo:" lines are ignored, and are just there for notes. The whitespace before the "| ..." lines is insignificant, so you can indent to represent the call hierarchy. --Craig [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2619 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) 2010-02-05 20:48 ` Craig Muth @ 2010-02-06 1:26 ` Mark A. Hershberger 2010-02-06 1:45 ` Craig Muth 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Mark A. Hershberger @ 2010-02-06 1:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Craig Muth; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, emacs-devel Craig Muth <craig.muth@gmail.com> writes: > Here's an example of a xiki tree you might build up when working in some > elisp files. Could be useful for communicating about code on mailing lists > like this one. Forgive me if org mode (or something else) already does > this. If so please enlighten me - I'd be interested in checking it > out. It's hard for me to see exactly what is going on, but it doesn't look like anything that OrgMode isn't already doing or could be made to do with a SMOP. Look at Emacs Starter Kit (http://eschulte.github.com/emacs-starter-kit/) for an example of how you can mix OrgMode markup and Emacs Lisp, for example. Mark. -- http://hexmode.com/ The only alternative to Tradition is bad tradition. — Jaraslov Pelikan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) 2010-02-06 1:26 ` Mark A. Hershberger @ 2010-02-06 1:45 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-06 22:55 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Craig Muth @ 2010-02-06 1:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark A. Hershberger, emacs-devel, emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1643 bytes --] > it doesn't look like anything that OrgMode isn't already > doing or could be made to do with a SMOP Hmm, really? Did you watch both screencasts? http://xiki.org/screencasts/web_development.html http://xiki.org/screencasts/wiki_syntax.html Please point me to the part of OrgMode with features for navigating and searching the filesystem in a tree structure. I'm interested in checking it out and comparing it to xiki. > an example of how you can mix OrgMode markup and Emacs Lisp It sounds like you might be thinking that the lisp in that my tree was to be executed. That's not the case, it's for navigation (you use the tree to jump to those lines in the files). --Craig On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Mark A. Hershberger <mah@everybody.org>wrote: > Craig Muth <craig.muth@gmail.com> writes: > > > Here's an example of a xiki tree you might build up when working in some > > elisp files. Could be useful for communicating about code on mailing > lists > > like this one. Forgive me if org mode (or something else) already does > > this. If so please enlighten me - I'd be interested in checking it > > out. > > It's hard for me to see exactly what is going on, but it doesn't look > like anything that OrgMode isn't already doing or could be made to do > with a SMOP. > > Look at Emacs Starter Kit > (http://eschulte.github.com/emacs-starter-kit/) for an example of how > you can mix OrgMode markup and Emacs Lisp, for example. > > Mark. > > -- > http://hexmode.com/ > > The only alternative to Tradition is bad tradition. > — Jaraslov Pelikan > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2544 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) 2010-02-06 1:45 ` Craig Muth @ 2010-02-06 22:55 ` Richard Stallman 2010-02-07 11:33 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2010-02-06 22:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Craig Muth; +Cc: mah, emacs-orgmode, emacs-devel Please point me to the part of OrgMode with features for navigating and searching the filesystem in a tree structure. I'm interested in checking i= t out and comparing it to xiki. The question that suggests itself to me is whether there is a way to separate out the various ideas, implemented by xiki and by Org mode, into modular features. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) 2010-02-06 22:55 ` Richard Stallman @ 2010-02-07 11:33 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Glauber Alex Dias Prado @ 2010-02-07 11:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: mah, Craig Muth, emacs-orgmode, emacs-devel Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > Please point me to the part of OrgMode with features for > navigating and searching the filesystem in a tree structure. I'm > interested in checking i= t out and comparing it to xiki. > > The question that suggests itself to me > is whether there is a way to separate out the various ideas, > implemented by xiki and by Org mode, into modular features. Just to tell my grandchildren that once i was in the same thread as rms :), these two tools are awesome and i am using both, and would take advantage of a more modular design for easy integration instead of each one working in its own pet. cheers, glauber. _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) @ 2010-02-07 11:33 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Glauber Alex Dias Prado @ 2010-02-07 11:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: mah, Craig Muth, emacs-orgmode, emacs-devel Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > Please point me to the part of OrgMode with features for > navigating and searching the filesystem in a tree structure. I'm > interested in checking i= t out and comparing it to xiki. > > The question that suggests itself to me > is whether there is a way to separate out the various ideas, > implemented by xiki and by Org mode, into modular features. Just to tell my grandchildren that once i was in the same thread as rms :), these two tools are awesome and i am using both, and would take advantage of a more modular design for easy integration instead of each one working in its own pet. cheers, glauber. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) 2010-02-07 11:33 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado (?) @ 2010-02-07 15:55 ` joakim -1 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: joakim @ 2010-02-07 15:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glauber Alex Dias Prado; +Cc: mah, Craig Muth, emacs-orgmode, rms, emacs-devel Glauber Alex Dias Prado <smade4@gmail.com> writes: > Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes: > >> Please point me to the part of OrgMode with features for >> navigating and searching the filesystem in a tree structure. I'm >> interested in checking i= t out and comparing it to xiki. >> >> The question that suggests itself to me >> is whether there is a way to separate out the various ideas, >> implemented by xiki and by Org mode, into modular features. > > Just to tell my grandchildren that once i was in the same thread as rms > :), these two tools are awesome and i am using both, and would take > advantage of a more modular design for easy integration instead of each > one working in its own pet. Just a data-point, but I've been using planner-mode for years, which resembles Org-mode, and also seemingly Xiki, which I havent tried yet. Planner uses Muse as its underlying wiki mode, and Muse is included in Emacs. As a user, I would also favor modularisation and re-use between these modes. > > cheers, > glauber. > -- Joakim Verona ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) 2010-02-05 18:22 ` Mark A. Hershberger 2010-02-05 19:32 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-05 20:48 ` Craig Muth @ 2010-02-07 9:47 ` Štěpán Němec 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Štěpán Němec @ 2010-02-07 9:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark A. Hershberger; +Cc: Craig Muth, emacs-devel On Fri, Feb 05, 2010 at 01:22:29PM -0500, Mark A. Hershberger wrote: > Craig Muth <craig.muth@gmail.com> writes: > > > Interested in hearing your feedback about my framework. It adds free-form > > wiki and tree features (and many others) to emacs. > > Looks like you're reproducing OrgMode (http://orgmode.org/). Why would > an OrgMode user be interested in Xiki? Actually, I see more similarity to Eev (<http://angg.twu.net/eev-article.html>) than Org. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-02-07 15:55 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-02-02 3:08 Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) Craig Muth 2010-02-04 3:24 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-05 18:22 ` Mark A. Hershberger 2010-02-05 19:32 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-05 20:48 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-06 1:26 ` Mark A. Hershberger 2010-02-06 1:45 ` Craig Muth 2010-02-06 22:55 ` Richard Stallman 2010-02-07 11:33 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado 2010-02-07 11:33 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado 2010-02-07 15:55 ` joakim 2010-02-07 9:47 ` Štěpán Němec
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