From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Craig Muth Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Xiki framework (wiki and tree emacs features) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:32:14 -0500 Message-ID: References: <878wb7r196.fsf@everybody.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1b5d433726d047edf823e X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1265398355 16154 80.91.229.12 (5 Feb 2010 19:32:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:32:35 +0000 (UTC) To: "Mark A. Hershberger" , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 05 20:32:32 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NdTuo-0002hT-8N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:32:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57142 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NdTun-0000A0-Gc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:32:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NdTug-00008Y-KT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:32:22 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=35139 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NdTug-00008I-Bt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:32:22 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NdTud-0000uw-Ti for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:32:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pz0-f185.google.com ([209.85.222.185]:46951) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NdTud-0000uA-6E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:32:19 -0500 Original-Received: by pzk15 with SMTP id 15so4346611pzk.25 for ; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:32:17 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.141.213.22 with SMTP id p22mr2157782rvq.94.1265398334058; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:32:14 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [24.160.172.54] In-Reply-To: <878wb7r196.fsf@everybody.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 82b21a17cf074c57 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:120954 Archived-At: --000e0cd1b5d433726d047edf823e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Looks like you're reproducing OrgMode (http://orgmode.org/). There's definitely some overlap, but a large amount that doesn't overlap, I think. (I'm no authority on org mode though.) Xiki doesn't do the cool scheduling and using a tree as a general html or latex editor stuff, for example. And I don't think OrgMode has much in the way of general filesystem navigation or searching features, though I could easily be mistaken. Xiki has a free-form wiki syntax for navigable file trees, file contents, searches, and running shell commands in them such as: - /tmp/ - foo/ - foot.txt | Some lines in the file | Some lines in the file ! ls -l - ##food/ - fool/ - foof.txt | A line that contains "food" | Another food line lower down in the file (The "-" bullets are optional, but allow you to use the mouse to expand/collapse.) If you watch the web development screencast ( http://xiki.org/screencasts/web_development.html) I think you'll recognize many things that aren't in or differ quite a bit from org mode. Also the 2 screencasts show only a subset of features in xiki. If there's interest there are about 6 more screencasts I could do. Where there is overlap (taking notes, etc) xiki takes a very different, less-structured approach. > Why would an OrgMode user be interested in Xiki? There are some innovative things in xiki that could potentially be borrowed and merged into org mode, at the very least. I don't foresee many OrgMode users switching to xiki. Though, any features could probably augment each other quite nicely. Like having your notes in Org's format and building up xiki filesystem trees within them. Or, maybe just using xiki's plugins to generate Merb/Rails apps and browse/maniplate couchdb, for example, or to control Firefox (reloading, sending javascript to it etc.) or committing to git during web development. Emacs has a lot of respect / adoption in the ruby community. Among emacs users who find themselves more proficient in ruby than elisp and have interest in using their code/gems/apps within emacs (a potent combination) = I think xiki will be interesting. Note xiki owes much of its ruby-interactio= n features to el4r, which it's built on top of. If you have simple ruby code that accesses an api it is trivial to create a tree-based UI, like the ones for git/couchdb/merb that are shown in the screencasts. --Craig On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Mark A. Hershberger wrot= e: > Craig Muth writes: > > > Interested in hearing your feedback about my framework. It adds > free-form > > wiki and tree features (and many others) to emacs. > > Looks like you're reproducing OrgMode (http://orgmode.org/). Why would > an OrgMode user be interested in Xiki? > > Mark. > > -- > http://hexmode.com/ > > The only alternative to Tradition is bad tradition. > =97 Jaraslov Pelikan > --000e0cd1b5d433726d047edf823e Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>=A0Looks like you're reproducing OrgMode (http://orgmode.org/).

There's definitely some overlap, but a large amount that doesn= 9;t overlap, I think. =A0(I'm no authority on org mode though.) =A0Xiki= doesn't do the cool scheduling and using a tree as a general html or l= atex editor stuff, for example. =A0And I don't think OrgMode has much i= n the way of general filesystem navigation or searching features, though I = could easily be mistaken. =A0Xiki has a free-form wiki syntax for navigable= file trees, file contents, searches, and running shell commands in them su= ch as:

- /tmp/
=A0=A0- foo/
=A0=A0 =A0- fo= ot.txt
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0| Some lines in the file
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0| Some lines in the file
=A0=A0! ls -l
= =A0=A0- ##food/
=A0=A0 =A0- fool/
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0- foof.txt
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0| A line tha= t contains "food"
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0| Another food= line lower down in the file

(The &quo= t;-" bullets are optional, but allow you to use the mouse to expand/co= llapse.)

If you watch the web development= screencast (h= ttp://xiki.org/screencasts/web_development.html) I think you'll rec= ognize many things that aren't in or differ quite a bit from org mode. = =A0Also the 2 screencasts show only a subset of features in xiki. =A0If the= re's interest there are about 6 more screencasts I could do.

Where there is overlap (taking notes, etc) xiki takes a= very different, less-structured approach.

> Wh= y would=A0an OrgMode user be interested in Xiki?

There are some innovative things in xiki that could potentially be borrowed= and merged into org mode, at the very least.

I do= n't foresee many OrgMode users switching to xiki. =A0Though, any featur= es could probably augment each other quite nicely. =A0Like having your note= s in Org's format and building up xiki filesystem trees within them. = =A0Or, maybe just using xiki's plugins to generate Merb/Rails apps and = browse/maniplate couchdb, for example, or to control Firefox (reloading, se= nding javascript to it etc.)=A0=A0or committing to git=A0during web develop= ment.

Emacs has a lot of respect / adoption in the ruby commu= nity. =A0Among emacs users who find themselves more proficient in ruby than= elisp and have interest in using their code/gems/apps within emacs (a pote= nt combination) I think xiki will be interesting. =A0Note xiki owes much of= its ruby-interaction features to el4r, which it's built on top of. =A0= If you have simple ruby code that accesses an api it is trivial to create a= tree-based UI, like the ones for git/couchdb/merb that are shown in the sc= reencasts.

--Craig


On= Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Mark A. Hershberger <mah@everybody.org> wrote:
Craig Muth <craig.muth@gmail.com> writes:

> Interested in hearing your feedback about my framework. =A0It adds fre= e-form
> wiki and tree features (and many others) to emacs.

Looks like you're reproducing OrgMode (http://orgmode.org/). Why would
an OrgMode user be interested in Xiki?

Mark.

--
http://hexmode.com/
The only alternative to Tradition is bad tradition.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=97 Jaraslov Pelikan

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