Re: delete-selection-mode (was: Put scroll-bar on right by defaultonUNIX.)

[Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>]

Hi Alan,


On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
>
> We're talking about the DEFAULT version here.

Yes.

> I've just spoken to my sister, an "ordinary" computer user.  She says
> she normally uses the <delete> key after marking text before typing
> further.  She also gets annoyed "every now and then" when marked text
> gets accidentally deleted by typing, though "it's not too bad" if
> there's an undo key sequence.

Yes, that is normal today since that is how it works during most of
the editing people do today.

You have to be in a special editing environment for it not to work and
most people are never in such environments today. So for most people
there are no exceptions to this.

I believe you have to be a "low level" programmer to ever be in those
special environments. Most people are not programmers. And most
programmers are not low level programmers. And Emacs are used also by
people that are not programmers.

> You and a few others, so as to save a single key
> easy press (<del> or C-w) want to heap massive inconvenience on others.

Not a few. All non-Emacs users (and they are a majority) are used to
that typing a character when text is selected will replace a visible
region/selection.

Whatever the arguments are I believe we will/must move in a direction
that makes it easier for newcomers. They are used to beeing able to
immediately using a new application. They meet new applications on the
web all the time. If some application on the web does not work
immediately they frown upon it as stupid.

> `self-insert-command' will have state dependent behaviour.  It won't
> JUST work anymore - it will have side effects.

Yes. And that is probably what most experienced newcomers expect
because it works that way - today.

> d-s-m makes an active region a fragile region.  It is this fragility
> which causes all the pain.  Please address this issue.

Don't you think the way to go is to make suggestions that can both
move us towards the common defaults and do what you think is best for
old-timers?

> That is mere hand waving, not evidence.

Don't you think we need creativity, not evidence here?

> Who says that people outside Emacs use this rule much?  My sister
> doesn't.

Experienced user might do it more.

> What, more state?  No thanks!  Either silence it or not.  I'd say
> silence it altogether.

If we do not use defaults that newcomers are used to, will we not
impose a new stat on them instead?