From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: menu-bar/menu problems and label/help text purecopy guidelines Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:49:24 +0100 Message-ID: References: <26634810.post@talk.nabble.com> <26780209.post@talk.nabble.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1260834627 20753 80.91.229.12 (14 Dec 2009 23:50:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:50:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Geek4AllSeasons Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 00:50:20 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NKKgD-0008S3-VD for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:50:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36600 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NKKgD-0000fZ-LO for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:50:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NKKfn-0000fM-7P for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:49:51 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NKKfh-0000YX-L6 for Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:49:49 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52348 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NKKfh-0000YM-G1 for Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:49:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yx0-f191.google.com ([209.85.210.191]:65384) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NKKfh-0001eK-4H for Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:49:45 -0500 Original-Received: by yxe29 with SMTP id 29so10264185yxe.14 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:49:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=K3K18Z4ekx/2rRxJJmqtR0JGj2uiUMBV4syJq316vmk=; b=gAi1fXeVqJSx+5yeuUypGvFImWJ9ewIyxC672jYOuHJXZ7hPvunHjKIRLN1N7pbu/E hTmOerMiUvGOLgrlB0iEzXR/cdw3GRWQP68wUhzFtI7xJT2NCCjE4OsrKeNf7t+GyGLy BIDbkeOD5iNpH7MC4Aje/OgNJ84Uf9BtuxH2M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=rOYdat/XIC28z8gPzlab/434cEzBdbYiXI8By3RDLcqRNSmvpIHDvXQzGU9Z2wrOPo by9TYXSuvg9upzYugpj3tDtdD5ptkKXPrg56O3UQjNkZtvK/uWvs3tT9nNZDwcJBcIt1 3+tKTa/p7Isim4Ro8pZiWOlhrdH63TIpSomCs= Original-Received: by 10.101.13.1 with SMTP id q1mr8254378ani.56.1260834584103; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:49:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <26780209.post@talk.nabble.com> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:70650 Archived-At: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Geek4AllSeasons wrote: > > > Lennart Borgman (gmail) wrote: >> >> Could you please test with an unpatched Emacs? I suspect the problem >> may be difficult to reproduce there because the menus are harder to >> reach from the keyboard. Or are you using the mouse? >> >> According to the elisp manual purecopy does not do anything except >> when building and dumping Emacs so it should not be the problem here, >> see >> In any case please try to reproduce it with an unpatched Emacs and >> send a bug report. > > An unpatched test produced the same behavior. Binaries from > emacs-from-cvs-091015.zip downloaded from OurComments (unpatched) directory > were used. That is the EmacsW32/OurComments version preceding the current > (patched) installation. Separate unpatched binaries corresponding to the > installed version were not present. Ok, fine. Then we know a bit more. > The apparent cause of the menu-bar not working differs from the prior > description. A menu-bar mode menu includes an imenu sub-menu: > > imenu-create-index-function =semantic-create-imenu-index > > The parse directory option is on. The menu-bar problem occurs for > buffer/files in directories containing large numbers of files, e.g. > emacs/lisp. A message has been observed reporting that a semantic table > entry for a file was empty. Opening each file appearing in those messages > corrected the problem and the menu-bar was fully functional. > > It was not intended to suggest purecopy semantics are at issue. There seems > to be a correlation between what menu label/tooltip text is and is not in > pure storage. > http://old.nabble.com/Emacs-cvs-purecopy%28%29-td26245381.html#a26245381 > Emacs CVS purecopy() > http://old.nabble.com/Use-of-purecopy%28%29-td26177841.html#a26177841 Use of > purecopy > http://old.nabble.com/bug-4429%3A-purecopy-calls-needed-for-%3Ahelp-and-in-menu-bar.el-td25441688.html#a26175618 > bug#4429: purecopy calls needed for :help and in menu-bar.el I know very little about this, but I know the elisp manual says that purecopy only makes difference for the dumped Emacs, ie not for libraries loaded later when you as a user runs Emacs. > I'm using many of Drew Adams' libraries. Some make extensive changes to the > menu-bar. Some possibly many of them don't use purecopy without problem. The > imenu/semantic issue above produces similar/the same behavior. It is likely > not related to purecopy since there is no problem if the directory index is > completely loaded. > > IMO there are new implicit dependencies/requirements which library > configurations. individually and/or in combination violate. There may not be > a "bug" in code. What happens if a menu-map is preloaded into pure storage > then "overlayed" with a new key-map in GC storage? In the imenu/semantic > case are menu-map transactions atomic, kinda? Are maps always left in a > consistent state. i.e. usable by the display front end? No. There are some bugs there, but they are hard to nail down. > The most significant issue is lack of error reporting. The search space is > far too large for indirect debugging methods. I fumbled around attempting > unsuccessfully to use Edebug and/or gdb to identify specific point(s) of > failure. It appears the c code primitives are silently choking on related > elisp data structures. It seems like it's time for the training wheels to > come off and start rolling my own binaries. The lack of any visibility into > c code is frustrating and unproductive. The unpatched binaries are compiled with debug information so you should be able to debug it using them. Or perhaps you should that since there might be unforseen problems due to that the menu code is not running in the elisp thread. Unfortunately I know little about how to debug this, but hopefully someone else can guide you (if you need assistance). > I'll repeat the test with unpatched binaries and submit a bug report. Thanks. That is very good. > david > -- > View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/menu-bar-menu-problems-and-label-help-text-purecopy-guidelines-tp26634810p26780209.html > Sent from the Emacs - Help mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > >